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Show Notes
00:00:14:01 - 00:00:16:15
Mudassir
Hey, Chase, Welcome to the show. How are you doing today?
00:00:16:16 - 00:00:18:09
Chase
I'm awesome. Glad to be here. Thanks for having.
00:00:18:09 - 00:00:20:11
Mudassir
Me. Absolutely. Where are you based? Out of Based.
00:00:20:11 - 00:00:24:07
Chase
In Los Angeles, to be specific. Manhattan Beach, South Bay.
00:00:24:07 - 00:00:42:01
Mudassir
Okay, so I'm a big, big fan of context. I think whoever we are today, whatever we are trying to do, whatever we are going to do, whoever we become eventually is because of the journey, because of all of the expertise that we have in the past. So paint a picture for us from a 20 year old chase. I would he defined whoever you are today.
00:00:42:01 - 00:01:09:13
Chase
Wow. Great question. I don't think he could in his wildest dreams kind of project where I'd be today because I've taken many different pivots over my life and career and have a circuitous path to where I am today. 20 year old Chase was very much inspired and immersed in, well, trying to figure out myself, you know, in college.
00:01:09:19 - 00:01:38:01
Chase
But in the world of storytelling and filmmaking, that was always even from a little kid. That was kind of what I was always passionate about, inspired by the craft of telling stories, moving people emotionally through through movies and television. And at that point, I think I was probably going to Sundance my first time in in awe of the possibilities of enduring a career and filmmaking.
00:01:38:03 - 00:02:02:02
Mudassir
Interesting. Very interesting. You mentioned storytelling. So so here's here's my weird question when it comes to storytelling. So a lot of people I think people are using this thing as a as a buzzword these days. Oh, storytelling. There's a coach you can sign up for for this particular type of coach or coach or something like that. And then you can learn storytelling for somebody who has been there for like years and decades was, you know, kid who started in storytelling.
00:02:02:06 - 00:02:08:15
Mudassir
What exactly is storytelling and how does a person become a good storyteller?
00:02:08:16 - 00:02:37:21
Chase
Storytelling. Storytelling is to me, is about taking people on a journey emotionally, soulfully, intellectually entertaining. Right, inspiring, activating. Those are all kind of cores to a good storytelling storyline has been around, you know, for eons, for generations. The cool thing about it is that we've evolved as a people, as a society, as a community, as a world quite a bit.
00:02:37:22 - 00:03:03:12
Chase
Storytelling in its fundamental form has not changed all that much. Right. And that's the beauty of it. The foundation of storytelling is steeped in values and formulas and architecture, from three act structures to hero's journey that haven't really changed much over time. And that's what's beautiful about it, right? We try to overcomplicated what is story, but it's really in its most simplest form.
00:03:03:12 - 00:03:25:18
Chase
It's either a personal, you know, a journey of transformation, of an aspirational transformation. You know, it's about how you deploy storytelling that differs through entertainment, through branding, etc.. But we're still using a lot of the same tools and foundations of what what makes a great story.
00:03:25:23 - 00:03:29:08
Mudassir
And how can one become a good storyteller? Because a lot of people are like, Are there.
00:03:29:08 - 00:03:47:12
Chase
A lot of people? Here's the thing. I think a lot I speak with a lot of clients are like, Oh, well, I don't know how to tell stories. I'm a, you know, crap storyteller. I don't believe that to be true. I think every single person innately, like wired in them has stories to be told. I think we overthink it, we overcomplicate it, and it's really, really hard to do for ourselves.
00:03:47:12 - 00:04:07:20
Chase
It's hard to tell our own story, right, because it's so we're so close to it. But I believe that we've all consumed stories since we were children. It's hardwired in us now. Maybe a little bit is in the subconscious. You got to bring it forward. But we all have the ability. We all have the skills to do so.
00:04:08:02 - 00:04:37:03
Chase
I think it's getting what I love to do is is simplify for people, giving them a framework for storytelling that that makes it easy and effortless and clear and simple. And so one of the one of the frameworks and there's quite a few I've read any number of books around screenwriter doing and storytelling and filmmaking. But one of the good frameworks I love to use for my clients today, especially in business and branding, is, you know, the story brand framework, the Donald Miller's story Grant and I'm a certified guide in that.
00:04:37:05 - 00:04:58:16
Chase
The reason I love it is because, a, it scratches the brain. That was a former filmmaker and how do you really apply that and to business and branding, telling stories. But it's all it's all nets around the same architecture. And that is, you know, real briefly, it always starts with the central hero or character, right. And what businesses and brands get wrong is they are not the hero of this journey.
00:04:58:16 - 00:05:20:00
Chase
They're not the the main character. It is their customer. It is their who they're serving, you know, or any film or any television show. Who is the hero, the main character protagonist that you're following. So starting with a character, what are their needs? What are their desires? Right? In starting in their ordinary world, they're always faced with the problem or challenge, right?
00:05:20:02 - 00:05:44:01
Chase
Without a challenge, without an end pass, without an obstacle doesn't make for a very good, compelling narrative or story, right? So starting with a character and the hero of this journey, what is the challenge and problem they're facing until they need a guide, Right? The guide is the brand. The guide is the Obi Wan, the guide is the yo know, you know, that is kind of the person that helps them, whether actively or passively, kind of with their identity transformation.
00:05:44:01 - 00:06:07:04
Chase
Right. Meets a guide, provides them with a plan. Right. And a call to action or in the hero's journey? Kind of. Yeah, it is Call to action. Call to adventure. Right. That that that lead to take them from the ordinary world into that you know that unknown and then you know how do you wrap that all around stakes any good story even if you have those components, what are the stakes?
00:06:07:07 - 00:06:25:19
Chase
What is what can happen if I succeed? What can happen if I fail? Right. There's no stakes. There's no ticking clock. We're not emotionally invested. So what does it look like for said hero set character? If they stay the same and did not change and did not face their foes in overcoming that challenge, that adversity? What is life look like?
00:06:25:19 - 00:06:42:15
Chase
What does a failure look like? Or what is the best success look like? That transformation. So, you know, that's a very brief way of saying that's a structure, that's a form, that's an archetype that any one of us could do for ourselves, can do for our businesses, can do for anything you want to put your mind to.
00:06:42:16 - 00:06:51:18
Mudassir
You mentioned a couple of times, brand and like how you know they can be used to destroy training. Do you think marketing is all about telling good stories?
00:06:51:20 - 00:07:16:09
Chase
I think it starts with telling good stories, and I'll caveat even that by saying authentic stories. You know, I think Warren, that business is, you know, yes, I do think short story is the most concise and clear way to show up for your audience, why you exist, how you're unique and different, and what do you serve and what you offer.
00:07:16:09 - 00:07:37:23
Chase
Right? There's endless data and studies around story as the ability to engage all of the senses and activate audiences. Consumers. It is the most powerful tool we have from a marketing business branding standpoint, right? But it still has to be connected to strategy. You can't just tell a good story that doesn't lead anywhere, that doesn't align with your values or your purpose.
00:07:38:05 - 00:07:41:21
Chase
So it's a great starting point. But there's other components that need to be kind of considered.
00:07:42:00 - 00:07:52:13
Mudassir
Why marketing? How did you end up in this particular profession and why this particular profession, out of all the things that you could do and why not Hollywood? By the way, if you were a screenwriter, if you were for the making of stuff like that?
00:07:52:19 - 00:08:15:12
Chase
Well, why marketing At first kicking and screaming. I mean, I'd spent a number of years early in my career working my way up through the ranks in Hollywood, in the entertainment industry, out in Los Angeles. I moved here from South Florida right after college, and I had done internships with William Morris Agency and Warner Brothers and quite a few other.
00:08:15:12 - 00:08:34:20
Chase
It had been a production company and immersing myself in that world. But I come from the school of hard knocks in terms of how I've learned film and storytelling and entertainment as well as branding and marketing. I didn't go to a film school per se, but I worked my way up as a P.A., as an executive assistant to a second unit director.
00:08:34:22 - 00:08:55:22
Chase
And I believe that's the best way to learn is learning all aspects of of that entertainment industry in Hollywood. And so having worked on independent film features, television shows, you know, having worked as a writer, as a director, as a producer, as an editor, wearing all those different hats that are being said, and I loved it and still love it.
00:08:56:00 - 00:09:12:07
Chase
At a certain point, I kind of realized it wasn't going to be the most sustainable career path. There's a lot of ups and downs. You have to be built a certain way that withstand the rigors of Hollywood. But what I loved about it, the passion for storytelling, I realized I could apply in a different way, in a different capacity.
00:09:12:13 - 00:09:43:07
Chase
And for me that that I soon realized that that was with brands and products and services and and having been commissioned by large brands, Fortune 500 companies to help them tell stories around products, around their company, around their initiatives. And that was my way of kind of scratching that itch, that passion for storytelling. I could repurpose it in a more intentional, authentic way because again, not just, you know, brands are used to doing your traditional interruptive advertising, right?
00:09:43:07 - 00:10:16:13
Chase
Commercials and ads. The best ones are transformative to take you on a story. The worst ones do the exact opposite. So that's one of what got me migrated into, you know, as we were coming up in kind of this, you know, digital, you know, content, democratization, the dawn of YouTube, the dot up influencers. I was working with these people before we would use the term influencers, working with subject matter experts, you know, health and fitness experts, chefs, fashion designers, makeup artists, and helping them identify and tell their story.
00:10:16:15 - 00:10:38:17
Chase
Right. Which they that they had never had to do before in a unique and compelling way in creating great content that would inspire others. And that's, you know, kind of how I believe the influencer kind of movement started. So taking my superpower, what I was passionate about and repurposing it to to tell brands and business stories, and that's kind of a snowball effect into marketing.
00:10:38:19 - 00:10:54:20
Chase
It was not just telling a great story because even a great story can fall flat without the right execution and distribution and reaching the right people in the right ways. So it was saying yes to a lot of things I'd never done before. All right. Well, can you, you know, build a website, you run a social media campaign.
00:10:54:20 - 00:11:04:02
Chase
Can you run ads? I mean, those digital marketing to me are the tools and tactics in which you amplify and activate. Great story and great Right. But it starts there.
00:11:04:02 - 00:11:17:06
Mudassir
You you mentioned, you know, influence of marketing a couple of years ago that was like on the high. I think everybody was just going through, you know, influencer marketing or something like that. Your opinion on influencer marketing, is it like dead that was just a hoax. That was a bubble.
00:11:17:06 - 00:11:44:06
Chase
No, no, it's not. It's not dead. And if anything, it's it's stronger than it ever was. I mean, there's this kind of there's this methodology around. We've created this we're all familiar with. Like the fourth estate were created this fifth estate and the fifth estate, meaning the the movement, the culture around these content creators and thought leaders that we call influencers or followers, whatever you want to call them, being arguably one of the greatest movements that move culture and society.
00:11:44:06 - 00:12:03:23
Chase
You know, the tastemakers, right? And so I think they are more ingrained in our culture and society than ever before. I think that power can be used for good and not so good. So, you know, I think I think people and brands have become more intentional about how to use influencer marketing as a tool and a tactic, right?
00:12:04:01 - 00:12:44:09
Chase
It's not just blindly pay to play because they have a lot of followers and influence. I think you have to be very intentional about who you're partnering with and how you're kind of using them as a platform. I think influencers themselves, you know, we've seen cycles of it. You know, the earlier, you know, influencers have since burned out from the rigors of having to create content to put themselves out there every week, every day, whatever might be my philosophy, the the way that I believe and my agency, my company uses influencer and as we kind of call grassroots marketing as a tool, is really moving away from the kind of one directional pay to play
00:12:44:09 - 00:13:20:13
Chase
macro influencer model and focusing on micro-influencers, focusing on communities, right? I say grassroots because we work with a lot of purpose driven organizations, whether that's film, indie filmmakers or nonprofits or businesses, but grassroots building, digital word of mouth research, doing homework, researching and identifying with the existing bloggers, podcasters, communities, any brands, NGOs, any and all aligned entities with existing communities and audiences that have aligned values that have a wide interest with what you are trying to serve or showcase or promote.
00:13:20:15 - 00:13:43:10
Chase
And a lot of times it's organic, it's across collaboration. There's no fees transacted, right? There's mutual value that each bring to the table. So I firmly believe that you can still have elevate your brand by simply a more intentional connection with the audiences that already exist, that love and believe in what you do. Value line. They just don't know it.
00:13:43:11 - 00:13:48:02
Chase
You have to put yourself out there and find them and find meaningful ways to promote one.
00:13:48:07 - 00:13:56:17
Mudassir
Okay, that makes sense. How did you end up starting rent? Cash Media? Like what exactly happened that one event that triggered like, okay, I just need to start that company and that's about it.
00:13:56:17 - 00:14:18:08
Chase
Yeah this is this is very much kind of accidental entrepreneur like I said as I was kind of as I was, you know, being hired by, you know, brands, you know, people, L'Oreal, Acer, you know, Sam's I like to do bigger or bigger branded content campaigns. Hey, I needed kind of a company and a team and a staff to kind of support that an endeavor and that bandwidth.
00:14:18:10 - 00:14:37:11
Chase
But also, again, it was that awakening that great again, great content doesn't beget results. And so a lot of the brands I was working with, I had built trust over creating great content and aligning with their teams and, you know, asked for me to help them execute the rest of the campaign, you know, how does it get out there?
00:14:37:11 - 00:14:59:00
Chase
And so web development and design social media campaigns paid media campaigns, grassroots influencer marketing campaigns, kind of, you know, fake it to make it honestly, like like a lot of us know, it's I had known enough to be dangerous, having worked with marketing agencies on the creator and filmmaker side, to know that this is not rocket science, but it does.
00:14:59:00 - 00:15:18:00
Chase
There is a better way forward. There is a more intentional way forward than just, you know, the smoke and mirrors that I think a lot of agencies get involved with. How can you kind of deeply ingrained yourself to help elevate your client? And a lot of those tactics were the digital, the necessary tools that we developed to help amplify and give them better results and better ROI on the content we were creating.
00:15:18:00 - 00:15:28:01
Chase
And long story short, you know, seven fast forward seven years, we've had many different iterations and innovations in the way we work, but that's, it was kind of that snowball effect.
00:15:28:01 - 00:15:45:06
Mudassir
Okay, so I saw you. You work with like big, big brands. Like I saw Samsung was there. I think Hewlett Packard was there, L'Oreal was there as a you know, you just name Intel was there. So one question that I want to ask you is you worked with like big, big brands, right?
00:15:45:06 - 00:15:56:17
Mudassir
You and there's a lot of agencies out there were just doing pretty much the same thing. This like a lot of competition out there in the same industry. How do you guys stand up, you know, staying out of the whole crowd? How do you guys do that?
00:15:56:17 - 00:16:19:21
Chase
Yeah, So, you know, I'll clarify. I have done work in campaigns with all those brands with large what you have companies and we still do to this day, you know we were doing campaigns with HP and and if you try a few others that is actually not the level of clients that we are going after today actively. And I'll tell you why.
00:16:19:23 - 00:16:55:17
Chase
Those are they're amazing campaigns to work on. Obviously, the budgets are great. You know, you have work returner, AT&T, you know, so I work with larger brands. What I have really refocused my and kind of the agency's efforts around is really, really more in the SMB space, small and medium sized businesses. And there's a reason for that. A I believe that we can have a lot more impact in those in those scenarios.
00:16:55:19 - 00:17:31:19
Chase
I enjoy working directly with the founder or CEO or C-suite. I enjoy embedding in that that type of a level, that collaborative level. And obviously you can't always do that with the larger brands. Honestly, there's a lot less red tape, you know, creatively, structurally. So again, having been, you know, amazing to going to work with a lot of those brands, I would say what got me in the door was building trust, starting working on very small projects, videos, campaigns and escalating from there.
00:17:31:21 - 00:18:09:04
Chase
Right. We I never wanted to try and kind of compete with the bigger agencies out there. They just have much more muscle, much more might and more power to you. And that's amazing. I like to keep things more agile and nimble, so smaller, you know, smaller, kind of more nimble team tactics, tools, abilities, working directly with the kind of bounding team, working more immersed in their everyday business and and again, you know, not to say that big companies aren't, but like kind of my mantra is really working with purpose driven people and organizations, those that are committed to doing good on them.
00:18:09:06 - 00:18:22:23
Chase
So it's not just the bottom line, it's not just a revenue, but a kind of greater impact. And you are seeing big brands commit to that, which is fabulous. I just I just like being able to shape and mold the assemblies in a little more malleable way.
00:18:23:00 - 00:18:46:21
Mudassir
Okay. So you mentioned something which is profit with purpose. Okay, let's talk about that actually. So so here's my opinion on that very different take than most people would have, I think and this is coming from a person who has worked with a lot of these DTC brands, like big, big DTC brands for yeah, on the tech side and supply chain side.
00:18:46:22 - 00:19:05:03
Mudassir
And then the reason why, you know, I'm having this opinion is I think a lot of people start of business and just before you know they're just like expanding scaling or whatever they just come up with this made up story or a gimmick or like whatever, Right. Okay. Nobody's willing to accept that. But I think that's the reality.
00:19:05:05 - 00:19:23:05
Mudassir
So so these what these brands do usually is, you know, they'll come up with a story, somebody will tell them, maybe a marketing consultant or somebody like, okay, you just need to have a great story because people are going to buy a great story, right? So that is come of it, but fantastic story, fantastic this thing and that and that thing.
00:19:23:07 - 00:19:37:19
Mudassir
And then all of a sudden it's like they don't give a damn about whatever the story was. That'll give a damn about what the purpose was, because most of them don't have a purpose apart from making just profit and exiting, which I don't think is a bad thing. Just need to admit it in a in a right way.
00:19:37:21 - 00:19:51:10
Mudassir
But coming back to you is, you know, maybe you said profit with purpose. Is that even the reality, like other brands that like really focused on purpose and letting go the profit profitability?
00:19:51:10 - 00:20:15:22
Chase
First of all, I agree with your I agree with your initial hypothesis. I think that's a lot of brands out there. And there's a there's a term for that. You know that I like communities purpose washing, right? I like greenwashing but I will tell you and that's kind of the biggest misconception is purpose and profit are not and should not be mutually exclusive.
00:20:15:22 - 00:20:43:04
Chase
It doesn't mean that by committing to a greater purpose and doing a greater good, you're sacrificing profit. If anything, it is the exact opposite. And and I'm happy to share some data points that prove it. I mean, we are beyond we are. We are. We have moved past the the era where purpose and give back are sound good for a marketing ploy right.
00:20:43:06 - 00:21:15:08
Chase
And consumers are much more savvy and discriminating than ever before, where in many cases a brand that purports to have rally around this great, beautiful story in this purpose that aren't doing their part, that aren't walking the walk, right. Are getting called out by as an authentic, by consumers, by stakeholders and employees, by the SCC for greenwashing, not to name names.
00:21:15:08 - 00:21:41:23
Chase
Right. So we are getting to a great reckoning. I agree with you. You know, we have seen a lot of this check this box checking by companies who say, oh, well, you know, we need to sound good, look good to our audiences, so let's rally around this really great sounding message. But then that's where it ends. And so, you know, my part of my mission is how do you bridge the gap between promise and performance?
00:21:42:04 - 00:22:04:15
Chase
I we're using a lot of the litigation here, But but it's you can't just promise to do good. You have to act on it and you have to act consistently on it. And when things are tough, you can't just kneejerk pivot away. And we see a lot of companies do that. So, you know, I'll share with you, you know, the data does not the data does lie.
00:22:04:16 - 00:22:35:05
Chase
We are in this movement where consumers, where employees, where investors does more than desire, They demand this from brands that they want to buy from work with, invest in. They demand it. And so this all goes under the hype, not the hypotheses. But the truth is that a commitment to brand purpose, brand purpose drives business growth. If you do it right, if you stay committed to it.
00:22:35:07 - 00:23:10:10
Chase
Right. So just to kind of share with you, you know, from a purchasing consumer standpoint, consumers are 4 to 6 times more likely to purchase and protect and champion purpose driven companies have 4 to 6 times more likely. And these are studies done by major, major firms, you know, major firms, longitudinal studies, 82% of consumers make purchases, purchase decisions with purpose in mind, right back to back to marketing.
00:23:10:10 - 00:23:31:09
Chase
By the way, people buy based on emotion first and logic, right? So it's no longer just a race to the bottom on who's the cheapest but you. We've got more options than ever before. What is going to stand out for us when making the decision between Brand A, B, and C? Right? What is the great differentiator? What is the great disruptor?
00:23:31:09 - 00:23:51:06
Chase
Well, the brand that aligns with my values and and I believe in and they're doing something good socially, environmentally, whatever it might be. Yeah, I might get behind that. And people are willing to pay more there. There are 2 to 3 and consumers will pay more higher margin for products and services from brands that are committed to social impact.
00:23:51:08 - 00:23:56:01
Chase
Right. So we're talking about margin. We talk about market share. This is these are
00:23:56:01 - 00:24:23:11
Chase
this is not just 5050 some of the time. This is undeniable in terms of what consumers are demanding and expecting, in terms of where they're placing their dollars and their and their and their support and their brand loyalty. All right. You know, you want to talk about the great migration, the great resignation and quiet quitting like companies are losing billions of dollars a year in employee turnover and lack of productivity and just malaise.
00:24:23:14 - 00:24:47:15
Chase
Right. So this is what millennials and even more so Gen Z is demanding they want to work with. And for companies that align with their values, that that is not just a day job. Clock in, clock out. They're more discriminating and where they're allocating their time. You know, this you know, your job has become kind of the new religion, arguably for better or worse.
00:24:47:16 - 00:25:15:16
Chase
Right? So millennials are going to make up 75% of the workforce in 2025. Crazy amount of crazy number. And, you know, they're looking for socially responsible employers. 83% of millennials say they'd be more loyal employees to companies that help them contribute to social environmental issues. Right. So again, when you talk about recruitment and retention and workforce, it pays to embrace and lean and commit to purpose.
00:25:15:22 - 00:25:37:02
Chase
And, you know, we can go on and on with investments and ESG. So all that to say is it's no longer a nice to say thing. It is a necessity for for business success and growth. And I believe that the businesses that don't do it or are falsely doing it, just talking to big gain, they're going to get called out soon enough.
00:25:37:04 - 00:25:56:21
Mudassir
You mentioned a lot of things. So, you know, I'm just going to come to a lot of a lot of the great points that you mentioned. So one company, I'm a huge fan of that. You can you can call a fanboy level and that's Apple. So and I'm going to just explain a very small and noble story or like whatever you want to call it.
00:25:56:23 - 00:26:19:14
Mudassir
So so I've used I'm in this tech space for I don't know how 13 years now. Yeah. Before that studies and stuff like that. So I've been using computer of it. So we use all, all sorts of things, you know, some, some of the companies you work with so the windows and then then the Mac. So we use both kind of phones because, you know, we were like right at the age when iPhone came out.
00:26:19:14 - 00:26:36:11
Mudassir
So we were like privileged enough to use iPhone, the original iPhone, and then, you know, yeah, all, all the things that that happened and now is just like every single thing. It's like, it's like a no brainer. You need to buy something. Just look at the app and just buy that because you know it's reliable. You know it's going to perform.
00:26:36:11 - 00:26:55:00
Mudassir
You know it's going to stay for you. All the reasons. One question that I want to ask you is I used to think people were using Apple is because that was a long time ago. I used to think that people are thinking logically because and then that's how they're making the decision. Okay, so we were buying this one particular phone or whatever.
00:26:55:02 - 00:27:11:08
Mudassir
There's a logic behind that because it's a better phone or I did is and demoed. I study this thing the more I tried trying to understand. So they came out with like weird headphones, which is like five in a box or something. A thousand back. I don't know how much I And then they came out with this VR thing, so that's pretty, pretty steep.
00:27:11:10 - 00:27:33:05
Mudassir
So the computer does pretty expensive and all of that. So, so it's not logical anymore. Has to be emotional. How does a company actually, you know, market products and then, you know, take so much, so much in profits and make the whole thing about them an emotion like how why do people like why do people like me make these stupid?
00:27:33:05 - 00:27:40:00
Mudassir
It seemed like this is what we need to buy old type. Like what exactly is that that they're doing that we just keep coming back to.
00:27:40:00 - 00:28:06:01
Chase
That because they stand for something. Because they stand for their tagline is they different, right? They trade in a culture and identity. Almost cult like that is different for anybody else, right? They weren't trying to replicate, you know, I know what they were trying to do or what else is doing. They were purposely and intentionally disrupting and for a certain type of person, that's that's an identity people buy based off a person.
00:28:06:01 - 00:28:22:02
Chase
I didn't I asked you, you know, what are your brands that you love? You know, you know the shoes, the tech, the the content you watch. That's I could tell a lot about you as a person based off of those decisions you make. You know.
00:28:22:04 - 00:28:43:00
Mudassir
Let's do that. Why? Why we're on the call So so I use Apple, you know, for all the tech take Nike all shoes. No question about that. Okay. And the and the type of people that type of content I consume, I consume people who are big entrepreneurs doing a podcast like they've done something and just changed their whole lives.
00:28:43:02 - 00:28:56:04
Mudassir
I don't give a damn. Like, who was the most famous person who was the most this and that? I don't watch any of these new tech talks. I mean, I don't care. So in 13 hours, 40 hours a day, I barely, you know, watch any of the things that's happening now that.
00:28:56:04 - 00:29:21:23
Chase
What you just shared with me. Those are all disrupter brands. I mean, Apple thing, different Nike just do it. Entrepreneurs like break down barriers and walls. I'm going to I'm going to transcend all the odds and all my naysayers and and achieve something great. I'm a transform myself, transform my business. You know, that is signals to me that you aspire with that transformative, innovative, disruptive sort of mindset and mentality.
00:29:21:23 - 00:29:42:01
Chase
That's what you aspire to, right? That's what you seek. That's what's exciting and sexy to you. You might not think of yourself like. You might not say, Oh, that's me, but it's what you aspire to. It's it's just like in a good story, you know, none of us are going to become James Bond, Jason Bourne, But we love it because we love like that.
00:29:42:01 - 00:30:00:09
Chase
It makes us feel something more that we can be beyond ourselves. And so, you know, you said to me, well, I love Apple and I love Wal-Mart. I've been like, Oh, I don't know how to reconcile the two of those. But, you know, you said Apple. You said Nike, you said entrepreneur. Those are premium brands. Those are premium experiences that are beyond the products.
00:30:00:09 - 00:30:20:13
Chase
Right. Nike stands for something. Just do it right. Screw everybody else, you know, defy the odds. And they've done things in their messaging, in their storytelling and branding that rubbed people the wrong way but inspired and ignited, you know, their true core brand brand followers, Right. Forget about the shoes, the products. There's a reason they can charge what they charge.
00:30:20:13 - 00:30:48:06
Chase
There's a reason that Apple can charge the margin of market share, because branding is all about elevating. It's all about perception. People are willing to pay more for the brands that stand for something greater than the product. People don't buy Apple because it's the best phone they don't buy Nike because it's the most well-made shoe people. They'll become entrepreneurs everyday because it's easy.
00:30:48:08 - 00:31:09:11
Chase
You know, These are all things that are signals that are a reflection of ourselves. And this is going into like brand archetypes and the Shadow and Carl Yang. And it's not to say what what we are, but we kind of what we aspire or desire to be. And so all that to say is the brand. When I say purpose, I don't mean saving the earth.
00:31:09:11 - 00:31:26:14
Chase
So I don't, you know, yeah, you know, solving, you know, climate change. And that's what I think a lot of brands get wrong is purpose and commitment to, you know, impact doesn't mean you have to be on the front lines, saving the world, saving society and saving culture. Right? You can do that in your own backyard and you can do that in your own in your own business.
00:31:26:14 - 00:31:48:16
Chase
Having commitment to nurturing the inside your employees first and foremost, whatever that needs purpose doesn't mean being a nonprofit. I think it's a lot of people get wrong. So purpose is Apple as a purpose. You know, they encourage and they encourage the outliers, the people who think differently, they're disruptors.
00:31:48:16 - 00:32:23:17
Mudassir
Yeah, pretty much on set. Pretty much like I think I think that's that's the best definition that anybody ever gave me. Do you think purpose is part of a value prop? Because so is a way like the context of like, why am I asking this question? So I think a lot of these brands, the ones that we're talking about, they charge premium and then you talk about what just because like I'm a huge fan of what you so you talk about all these big brands and they charge like whole lot of like they charge shitload of money right?
00:32:23:18 - 00:32:41:16
Mudassir
Some of them stand for some things. Some of them don't stand for something. Or maybe I don't know if if they're standing for something. All right. But it's it's the experience that people are buying and they're paying premium for. So experience is user experience is is like what is it's a value prop. Do you think purpose is a value proposition that enables companies to charge premium?
00:32:41:18 - 00:33:07:06
Chase
It's a great question. The short answer is no. If you have to put your purpose in your value prop, then I think you're you know, I see a lot of companies trying to differentiate based on purpose. I think brand is how your audience, consumers perceive you. It needs to be there. It needs to guide who you are, what you do as a company.
00:33:07:06 - 00:33:28:16
Chase
It's your what right purpose is your why, what we believe, why we exist. I believe that flavors everything but as a value proposition in terms of why you should buy from us, I don't believe it. Putting that out there from center, I don't believe in, you know, making people kind of, you know, buy for me because we're going to give back a portion of our proceeds.
00:33:28:16 - 00:33:47:18
Chase
Right. That shouldn't be what people lead with. Right. I believe value proposition is is what problem your resolving, how you're uniquely doing that and what that intended outcome is. And arguably your purpose can flavor all of those things. But I don't believe that you should be putting purpose at the forefront and saying buy from us because we do good.
00:33:47:22 - 00:34:22:14
Chase
I believe that's value signaling in a lot of cases when done really, really well, it's absolutely woven in. But value prop is about disruption and differentiation. How we're how we're different, how we're unique, how can we resolve your problem in a unique and in a way the purposes how the cherry on top and the bonus it's like you know you know you're familiar with Golden Circle and Simon Sinek right Start with like you know why you exist, what you believe, how you're uniquely positioned to deliver on that and what it is you actually do right now.
00:34:22:14 - 00:34:28:02
Chase
You profit to me is more about the how and the what. You don't always infuse the why in it, but it definitely flavors everything.
00:34:28:02 - 00:34:47:11
Mudassir
You just curious to know all these big companies, you know, let's pick because we're talking about Nike. So that does pick Adidas and Nike at the same time. Right. That they're both making same product, Pretty much the same quality. Okay. Pretty much the same quality. Pretty much the same design. Is this a shoe? Right? How do they coexist together in the same market?
00:34:47:11 - 00:34:51:05
Chase
How do they coexist? I mean, the market is huge. That's how they do exist. Yeah.
00:34:51:07 - 00:35:06:06
Mudassir
So? So there has to be some sometimes I think like, okay, it's, you know, the the messaging resonates with like Nike's messaging resonates with some people. They just messaging resonate with some other people and that's how the is right But when there's a new company, new company or like whoever is coming out.
00:35:06:06 - 00:35:31:07
Chase
How do you have to treat that market? How do you grab some market share on disruption innovation? How do you how does liquid death disrupt the water market? They're the they're like the crucible for disruption and they're as a brand, it's just water. It's all packaging, branding, just water. They completely disrupted it and they and they're doing really well or you take the shoe marble, you take allbirds, right.
00:35:31:09 - 00:35:53:16
Chase
Sustainably made shoe And there's things about that pro and con that if you dive down the rabbit hole but that's developed a bit of an identity disruption identity right around their their credo and ethos to sustainability. They're a big corp, right? So they're carving out a market. Are they going to become as big as Nike and Adidas? No, probably not.
00:35:53:18 - 00:36:19:06
Chase
You know, though, they've been around for four decades, you know, for generations. So it's hard to disrupt those big master brands. But to carve out a share is to disrupt. And I and I do believe that you have to go niche, which is all around Y in purpose, right? It's not standing for everything for everyone. It's standing for something that's unique and singular and true and authentic that is going to help connect you with your target audience.
00:36:19:08 - 00:36:37:09
Chase
You know, not everyone cares about. Oh, Allbirds. Some people like it cause they. They like the way the looks. So people know it's sustainable. Some people don't, but they're not going with a thousand different designs and styles and colors. They're going with simplicity and singularity, you know? And in an overcrowded landscape of shoes, that's disruption.
00:36:37:11 - 00:36:51:14
Mudassir
Have you ever consulted a brand that come to you and said, like, we had a purpose, but you guys figured out like, no, this is like not a proposal, whatever. And then they need to shift to something else. Like, did you help somebody find a purpose or changed a purpose that they already had?
00:36:51:16 - 00:36:55:04
Chase
Find a purpose, Yes. Change a purpose. Not so much.
00:36:55:04 - 00:37:04:02
Mudassir
Yeah. Like, what's the process looks like? Like how do you, you know, take a brand step by step and help them find this and discover the culture that, you know, discover the purpose that they want to have.
00:37:04:02 - 00:37:23:19
Chase
So that's that to me is arguably the most enjoyable thing that I love to do. And that's why I like, like working with kind of thought leaders, entrepreneurs, assemblies, because it's their like story, it's their you just need to get vulnerable and real and listen to yourself, listen to your employees and your team, listen to your consumers and customers.
00:37:23:21 - 00:37:40:11
Chase
Finding a purpose is really, you know, you know, bank, which my agency empowers purpose driven people and brands that feel kind of stuck on their journey to help them find clarity that came from like in here, some soul searching. We didn't start that way. You know, we were an agency that kind of served every you know, we're defined by our clients.
00:37:40:11 - 00:37:57:17
Chase
We did a little bit of everything for everyone. And to me, that was kind of I was burning out. It was exhaustive and it wasn't doing well for our business. We weren't differentiated. And not to say that I did all of this for differentiation, but you know, we got brought to our knees in terms of clients and team and all that near, you know, near zero.
00:37:57:19 - 00:38:15:06
Chase
And I think instead of kind of shutting it down, I had to take a look at myself and say, Why am I doing all this? Why, you know, what is that I love about what I do and who I serve. And for me, it is helping other people in their journey find that, find that alignment, find that discovery.
00:38:15:08 - 00:38:32:00
Chase
That's what I love about it. And I love doing it with people that have a deep rooted passion and purpose for what they do. A lot of those are nonprofit companies. A lot of those are filmmakers and storytellers. Some of those are for profit businesses, whether that's they can identify with it or not. And that exploration is what's what's enjoyable.
00:38:32:00 - 00:38:54:02
Chase
It's fun helping them find that thing that energizes them, that motivates them, that inspires them so that the day job, whether it's selling shoes or running an agency, isn't just about, oh, how much do we sell today or this month or this week about bottom line, it's like, hey, we're making an impact in people's lives and in my life, in our lives, in our teens lives.
00:38:54:04 - 00:39:16:20
Chase
That to me is is the exploration that's kind of, you know, our approach to branding and strategy and marketing is pretty sequential. You know, starts with discovery understanding you, discovering your true identity, your true purpose, your positioning. Right. Getting clear on that first. That's the foundation for everything. Then we can move into identity. What does that look like?
00:39:16:20 - 00:39:33:16
Chase
What does that sound like? What does it feel like? You know, what is your website in the messaging, in the story, in the video and the content, the logo look like to show that to the world and then it's and then it's growth, then it's marketing. Because if you don't have those kind of core elements in place, first all the market you do all the marketing, the world kind of fall flat, right?
00:39:33:16 - 00:39:39:02
Chase
It's not going to penetrate and be efficient. So that's the way I like to approach.
00:39:39:05 - 00:39:40:19
Mudassir
Why do you enjoy that? So much?
00:39:40:21 - 00:40:03:02
Chase
It's a great question. Yeah, I I've talk to my therapist now. I, I think it, you know, I think it goes back to a lot of what I loved about filmmaking. Storytelling is getting the like getting a proxy high a proxy joy over helping people feel something, right? Whether it's from a movie or TV show like Laugh, Cry, Feel.
00:40:03:04 - 00:40:26:00
Chase
I think it's the same in business and branding. I don't get a joy out of running a business. I get a joy out of helping other people do better for themselves in their businesses. Like I love that I don't aspire to be a big mega agency or a billionaire or, you know, or I know I'm not on the front lines changing.
00:40:26:02 - 00:40:56:11
Chase
The world. I love helping people that have that passionate commitment in need, that clarity on how to do it right. My superpower is kind of helping others see that connection of the dots, that constellation through the stars, which is hard a lot. You know, you can have passion, you can have the purpose. But having that clarity to really hard to align all three of those things and that's just always brought me joy is is empowering others in their journey.
00:40:56:11 - 00:41:08:22
Chase
When someone says to be like, oh my God, yes, like light bulb, this is what the brand is, or This is what our story is, or this is what it's supposed to look like or, you know, our customer said this like I get more joy out of that.
00:41:09:00 - 00:41:20:18
Mudassir
Do you think a brand can successfully sell a product, become profitable and that product or like whatever that is totally unrelated to their purpose? Is that.
00:41:20:18 - 00:41:23:11
Chase
Possible? Can a brand sell a product and become profitable?
00:41:23:11 - 00:41:30:02
Mudassir
Yeah, No. Can it can a brand sell a product which is against their purpose or like whatever the value that they are and become profitable?
00:41:30:02 - 00:41:32:19
Chase
Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately.
00:41:32:21 - 00:41:35:03
Mudassir
Is that not a good thing? Is that a bad thing?
00:41:35:03 - 00:42:08:04
Chase
Is that a is that a rhetorical I mean no, I mean okay, I don't subscribe to it. You shouldn't say one thing and do another. You know, you shouldn't say you stand behind something and do something behind the eye and your customers back are closed doors. That goes against that. I mean, not big. I you know, Nike was producing shoes in sweatshops, not saying their purpose was to be anti child labor, but I think they would even admit and and they've taken steps to kind of reconcile that that that reconciling that goal went against their brand values and their brand beliefs.
00:42:08:06 - 00:42:33:20
Chase
Right. This there's things that many they it's it's really hard it's really hard to do it right every time all the ways whether you're a small business, an individual entrepreneur or a big brand no one's perfect. And I don't expect and nor should consumers expect, you know, cancel culture included. You know, that business as brands are going to get it right every single time there's going to be missteps.
00:42:33:22 - 00:42:55:21
Chase
It's gonna be mistakes is going to be fallible. How do you fix those? How do you resolve those? How do you own up to those? That's super important. But there's plenty of businesses out there that say they're doing one thing and are doing things that are far worse. Like you look at kind of carbon offset, right? It allowing companies to produce a ton of carbon emissions.
00:42:55:23 - 00:43:21:02
Chase
But it's okay because we're buying we're doing buyback offset credits from other companies and it's like but you're still polluting just because you have the money to like balance the balance the sheets, that doesn't make it right. You know that that's not sustainable. That's like here. You know, so the answer to your question is yes, a lot too much.
00:43:21:04 - 00:43:24:07
Chase
Our companies take one thing into doing another.
00:43:24:08 - 00:43:43:18
Mudassir
Okay. One question that, you know, you made a point early on and, you know, we just when the idea that out of over the decades, how do you think the users behavior specifically when it comes to buying. I think so. You know their buying behavior, purchase behavior, whatever you call it, has changed. You know, you can you can be okay.
00:43:43:18 - 00:43:51:01
Mudassir
Starting to think somebody's buying the same thing in 2000, 2000, early 2000 and not been pretty hard hitting that has changed.
00:43:51:01 - 00:44:10:08
Chase
Information, access, more options, more discriminating tastes. It used to be that people would buy based off what they see on the shelf, and that's all they would know, right? There were no websites to tell us what stood behind the brand. There was no social media. There was no, you know, people, you know, the evolution of branding and marketing.
00:44:10:08 - 00:44:31:01
Chase
You know, it used to be features just what what cool features you're buying. Then it was benefits. Okay, well, how do those features benefit your life? Right? Then it was, you know, and then it's evolved all the way to now to identity. How does that brand make you feel? How does that relate to your personal, your personal brand and your identity?
00:44:31:06 - 00:45:05:10
Chase
Right. Apple's not selling you the megapixels, you know, or the storage capacity they're selling you by. They're selling you an identity aspiration as a Nike, not selling you the red counter that you know what it's you know it's just not what they did. So more access to information and more discriminating, more enlightened consumers and audiences that have more information and more options at their disposal and therefore more particular.
00:45:05:12 - 00:45:31:09
Chase
And I would say that this is all the shift in capital. You know, we used to operate on predominantly a shareholder model, shareholder capitalism. Do you go for your shelves? Are all those in your bottom line that's shifted to stakeholder capitalism, the responsibility and demand by the stakeholders internal your team, your employees, your peers, whatever, and your external consumers that are driving the driving force.
00:45:31:11 - 00:45:52:11
Mudassir
Yep, Totally agree to that. So when I when I was doing a whole lot of research on our marketing, specifically on marketing and when the mistake that I committed was like I was talking to a lot of salespeople at that point and that was like years ago. At that point in time, I could not differentiate between marketing and sales.
00:45:52:13 - 00:46:17:13
Mudassir
I don't know, like, not yet. So a lot of the time I think about that, like, okay, so I could not figure it out. What's the sales and marketing like? How did it separate and all that? The reason I ask you this question is a lot of people think that branding and marketing are just like manipulative ways to sell products like push collars to people like, you know, we just create this sort of a bubble.
00:46:17:15 - 00:46:28:23
Mudassir
So you, you just buy that. You don't know what you need it down. Know if you want to have the same product or not. But the gimmicks are just like not the gimmicks is just like tactics to push the things.
00:46:29:03 - 00:46:56:06
Chase
Yes, it's a lot of, you know, Heavy wears the crown. It's a lot of power in marketers hands to agitate pain. You know, marketing is about problem solution. You know, what is the problem that you are suffering or or what is the problem that we can solve to a desired solution, whether it's tangible, whether it's external or, you know, internal feelings, whether it's philosophical, it's problem solution.
00:46:56:06 - 00:47:27:05
Chase
So part of that is identifying, calling out an agitator, t a P a problem which yeah, there's, you know, there's there is white hat and there's black hat approaches to that. So you know what, how you choose to approach that. I think you and I and most people can, can call out the ones that are black hat versus white hat, you know the ones that are kind of manipulative versus, you know, I think this and I think that's where brand comes in.
00:47:27:07 - 00:47:31:15
Chase
It's kind of this invisible intangible thing that flavors how you execute that.
00:47:31:18 - 00:47:41:07
Mudassir
What exactly is a brand? Because it's a company that's a brand, a person, that's a brand. We call that personal brand. So what exactly is a brand, in your opinion?
00:47:41:07 - 00:48:05:10
Chase
Good question. A brand is the perception of you as a person, as a as a business, as whatever in the eye of the consumer? It's an IT brand is intangible. A brand is greater than the sum of its parts, is greater than the marketing, the sales, the logo, the visual identity. So the brand is kind of in the eye of the beholder in a way, right?
00:48:05:12 - 00:48:31:19
Chase
So it's not just what the the business says. The brand is. It's not just what me or you say we are. It's how that is perceived. It's how that is, you know, accepted by the people that we work with and live with and do business with and all of that. I'm just like back to Apple. You know, it's a brand is is not their logo.
00:48:31:20 - 00:49:01:17
Chase
A brand is not a logo. A brand is not a slogan. A brand is not a product or a service. Arguably, it's it's the orbit around all of those things. And more and more is it's less defined by the business. It's more defined by the audience because like we talked about, what has shifted with consumers, what how is a brand discussed and talked about and considered online when they're surfing at home or or in a shop?
00:49:01:19 - 00:49:07:14
Chase
That's the perception of the brand that is less in control of businesses and more actual consumers.
00:49:07:14 - 00:49:14:09
Mudassir
Is why do a lot of companies psychic marketing? Because there's a lot because.
00:49:14:09 - 00:49:21:22
Chase
We wouldn't we wouldn't have jobs in that. Yeah. Okay why do they subject but reality?
00:49:22:02 - 00:49:44:03
Mudassir
So in SAS and most of my expertise is in you know digital products and SAS a bullet all that we had companies I had clients spending up to 10000 hours in marketing budget every month I had I I've seen people spending 50 K I've seen people spending 100 K just in marketing. I mean, nobody had a budget for development, but people always have a budget for sales and marketing.
00:49:44:05 - 00:49:46:13
Mudassir
That's the saying that, that you really go.
00:49:46:15 - 00:49:59:07
Chase
Interesting because I see the other way around too. I've seen, you know people have zero budget for marketing like you really need like oh well we're we're not turning a huge profit. I'm like, yeah, that's when you need to invest in marketing, so why do companies suck?
00:49:59:08 - 00:50:15:12
Mudassir
But this is a split. Actually, it's a split actually. So a lot of companies. So what they do is they're like, keep the head down, just keep building, never go to the market. Like they never take you to the market and they don't invest anything in the market. And the reason is or the conclusion is that they don't end up selling that particular product because you're easy to nobody.
00:50:15:13 - 00:50:37:08
Mudassir
That is one part but one reason. The other one is they don't have a budget for for development and all they're doing is just like marketing and marketing, but they don't know how to make like they're doing something. They're trying to reach everybody, end up hitting nobody. So that probably something like that, they're doing it. So the question is actually why a lot of companies actually suck at marketing, but people that I think don't seem to understand is people think it's just all about paid advertisement.
00:50:37:08 - 00:50:51:11
Mudassir
People think it's all about out recording a video. The CEO, you know, going on a podcast or something like that, maybe, you know, starting a YouTube channel or having a social media presence. So that's what people usually think about. And that's why the second night.
00:50:51:13 - 00:51:13:03
Chase
So yeah, I mean, yeah, look, you answered it. Why people suck in marketing is because they think it's just marketing. They think it's just marketed. They just go right to the end game. They just go right to I'm going to put a bunch of budget to ads, PPC, SEO, influencer marketing, social media campaigns, billboards, because that's what they go to the ends, not they don't focus on means.
00:51:13:05 - 00:51:31:00
Chase
As I articulated earlier, that's a lost cause. They're dumping money. They're putting dummy money, right? Because they haven't figured out their why. And sometimes even their how. They haven't they haven't gotten real with their brand identity, their brand story, their brand positioning, which is why, like, you know, clients, consumers every day saying, oh, we need a social media campaign, we need SEO for us, we need more leads.
00:51:31:01 - 00:51:46:20
Chase
I'm like, Great, pump the brakes, let's measure twice, cut once before we start just running campaigns. Any agency out there can do that. And many will many will just blindly say, Sure, we'll take your money, we'll do it. They're not willing to think and reach deeper to say, well, why? What is the foundation here? What is the the overarching brand strategy?
00:51:46:23 - 00:52:06:10
Chase
What is the marketing strategy? Which is why it's got to start with discovery auditing where you are today, the good, the bad and the ugly, mapping out, getting really clear on your customers, your positioning, your identity, your voice, your differentiation content, like a blueprint. Have a plan. Make sure that all of your collateral, your assets, your website, your story, your content is reflective and consistent with that.
00:52:06:11 - 00:52:22:21
Chase
So that was saying to you, it's like you get one message in a in an ad and you go to the website, you're like, Wait, that looks like that looks and sounds like a completely different company. So you've got to start from the inside out. Why Companies start marketing Because they only look at it as marketing. They don't look at it as getting clear and strategic, what they want to say, how they're going to say it, and who they're trying to reach.
00:52:22:21 - 00:52:36:15
Mudassir
Yeah, and then they give you a small body story. So I met a founder and then he was building some product and then you know what? What he would do is he would go to a conference, meet somebody new, and then he'll come back and he's like, I got a cool idea. We should also start doing that. Okay.
00:52:36:15 - 00:52:57:12
Mudassir
So now they're doing two things. Now, you went to some some some other place, met somebody else, you know how then they're like, whatever came back. Oh, we could also do that three four thing as well. So let's do the four things all together. And now that the problem that I think they have is they're not doing one thing perfectly fine, They're doing four things horribly wrong, but the other on the on the other side of the things is the messaging and all of that.
00:52:57:12 - 00:52:58:19
Mudassir
Not consistent across the.
00:52:58:21 - 00:53:01:18
Chase
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:53:01:20 - 00:53:06:11
Mudassir
That they don't have a strategy. It's not focused. It's just like divided. Everybody's doing everything.
00:53:06:11 - 00:53:40:11
Chase
Not only is it consistent, it's not simple and it's not clear, you know, like our brains are wired to exclude information like based on survival. We are if we process every bit of information coming at us all day, every day, we would explode like we're not wired that way. We're wired for survival and conserving calories. So our brains naturally are inclined to only sift through the content, the story, the message that that we believe is going to serve us and resonate with us.
00:53:40:11 - 00:54:03:20
Chase
And so when you have all all these confused, convoluted, complex, competing messages, we're just like, shut it out, put it over here. It doesn't work for me. It doesn't serve me versus a clear, simple, clarified and consistent message done executed really well through multiple channels and touchpoints through brands. That's when it's clear. That's when I'm ready to lean in and listen.
00:54:03:22 - 00:54:10:14
Chase
So, yeah, it's really tragic how so many companies spend a lot of time and money doing it wrong.
00:54:10:19 - 00:54:28:03
Mudassir
So Chase, we we do invite a lot of business authors on. The podcast is also very close to, you know, host some of those as well. And the reason you know, why I brought this thing up is a lot of books that are around marketing. You can pick a category and there's like millions and millions of books out that I haven't read a lot of them, but I have read a few of them.
00:54:28:03 - 00:54:43:05
Mudassir
I know the reason why, you know, I brought this because this is a very selective, you know, number of books that you have. You could have the whole rack, you know, filled out with the whole thing. So if anybody's starting out in marketing, what are the five books that need to read over and over and over again?
00:54:43:06 - 00:55:01:06
Chase
I don't even know that I can give you five and I'm free. I've read a lot. I'm pretty selective of like, so I don't know this this sounds ridiculous, but like, I think some of the best brands, some of the best books about marketing aren't about marketing because for the exact reasons, exact reasons that year that you just described why is marketing sucked?
00:55:01:06 - 00:55:20:09
Chase
Because a lot of people are reading the same books they are following kind of by the book, the tactics. So I think one one book, a book that I love, a framework that I love is, yeah, sure. It's about like its story brand, you know, the the Darren Miller story brand framework, brand script framework, all that messaging for brands and businesses.
00:55:20:14 - 00:55:40:11
Chase
Right? I think that's core because again, you don't have that right on the marketing works. I love this. I do love the simplicity of like the one page marketing plan. I have that here. Yeah. Allan Dib I think because what's great about it is it simplifies it. It's simple, buys just about anybody. We make it to be this really complex, convoluted process.
00:55:40:13 - 00:56:30:03
Chase
It doesn't have to be and shouldn't be. So the more you can make it really simple and easy, just like story brand simple, clear framework. So build a brand story. Simple, clear framework one page no elements build a marketing plan. The third, I really love brands on a mission, and I think that's behind me somewhere. Yeah, brands on a mission, but all about real intentional case studies, exploration around brands that have committed to true putting into practice, you know Unilever and they big major brands brand purpose brand values brand mission their why and the really tangible ROI from it financial or why brand equity or ROI.
00:56:30:03 - 00:56:51:20
Chase
I like the real impact of results like I believe like that level of degree and proof of how it can be done and done really, really well is a testament to, you know, this sort of movement. I also think there's a great book called Good is the New Cool, and a couple of great guys over at an agency called Conspiracy of Law.
00:56:51:21 - 00:57:05:05
Chase
These work at a big agency, but they're all about championing, you know, doing good, good, do well, good as the new core. So I think it's also they've got great principles of purpose that they talk about. So yeah, those are some of my favorites.
00:57:05:07 - 00:57:23:11
Mudassir
Okay, awesome. I love talking to you. So we do have this ritual of the podcast. What we do is we ask all our guests a question for our next guest without knowing who the next guest is going to be. So obviously got a question for you. And then we're going to take a question not not going to be a part of the part of the recording anyway.
00:57:23:13 - 00:57:35:23
Mudassir
So. So yeah, the question that and this is coming from a person who also belongs to the DTC board, and he has a lot of the same thing that you mentioned. And I so this is not going to be.
00:57:36:04 - 00:57:42:12
Chase
A question they gave to you that you would then ask to meet not knowing who I am. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant.
00:57:42:14 - 00:57:49:00
Mudassir
So and the question is, it's very funny. What why are you doing this podcast?
00:57:49:02 - 00:58:17:23
Chase
Um, you know, the truth is preaching the gospel, man. I believe more people need to kind of drink this Kool-Aid that we're drinking. No, it's it's PR helping, obviously, brand brand exposure and awareness for. You know what I do when I believe part of it is exploration. I just love connecting with different people in different ways and having these quite challenging conversations.
00:58:18:01 - 00:58:37:03
Chase
But yeah, like I'm on a mission, man. I, I believe that you can get, you can do good and you could do well, you could profit with purpose. And I spend a lot of my time and energy trying to like coach and instill and prove that to businesses and clients. And this is you have an amazing platform in which to share that with people.
00:58:37:06 - 00:58:40:18
Chase
So thank you for giving me the opportunity.
00:58:40:18 - 00:58:46:15
Mudassir
Of very kind of you. Chase, Thank you so much for the time. Appreciate it and enjoy the day.
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