We are NOT doing it for Money

Mudassir (00:00.13)

doing something. OK. So the questions are open or something.OK. Mic check. Hey, Glenn. Welcome to the show.

Glenn Gardone (00:10.843)

Thank you for having me. It's greatly appreciated. I'mpleased to have you.

Mudassir (00:13.618)

It's our pleasure to have you. Usually when I start bytalking to anybody, one of the first thing that I ask them is about context ofthe life. Because I think whoever we are, we're like sum of efforts. So justgive us a little bit of a context about your life, who you are, who is Glennactually behind all these successes, all the accolades, like who are you?

Glenn Gardone (00:39.111)

So, you know what, I'm first generation American. My family,you know, of course, most of America are immigrants, needless to say, but youknow, I'm first generation American. Grew up in a very blue collar family.Decided early on that I wanted to use my brains instead of my brawn and went tocollege. First in my family go to college and worked hard while I was atcollege. And I actually ran a construction firm while I was in college. And

had about 31 employees while I was going full-time tocollege and then sold that and got my degree in finance and got married to agorgeous woman who is my best friend and my sweetheart to this day. I've gottwo wonderful boys that are making their way in the world and that are positiveinfluences themselves. And you know, now I get to live a little bit of theAmerican dream because of the hard work. You know, I have a saying that I'vetried to teach my boys.

You spend the first part of your life like nobody wants toso you can spend the rest of your life like everybody wants to So there was alot of hard work a lot of you know long hours a lot of times on an airplane Youknow, I was looking at you know, we all have our um, our rewards, you knowpoints and things like that flying hotels One hotel stay I looked at cuz theytrack you and this is since and this is only one hotel chain I've been toprobably all of them

This one hotel chain, I spent six years in hotel rooms. SoI'm like a rock star without the music, the talent or the groupies. So prettymuch I'm just a lonely guy sitting in a hotel room in other words.

Mudassir (02:20.094)

The guy who has a pleasure of having a family, who has seena lot of success, and most importantly, who is happy with whatever he has donetoday, I hope so. Right, okay, that's very helpful. So you started in construction,moved to finance. Two total opposite things, like what did that happen?

Glenn Gardone (02:28.519)

Yeah.

Glenn Gardone (02:40.627)

So I did what I knew, you know, and so I'm not one of thosepeople that found their passion early in life. I'm not. I found my passion inmy 40s, but it wasn't like I was going to sit there and waste my time. So Iactually, you know, going to college, didn't want to take out a bunch ofstudent loans, didn't just didn't want to get into debt like that, didn't feelcomfortable. So started with a 1982 Subaru, a stepladder and a business card.

And that's how I started and grew the business quite quicklyand quite rapidly and were successful. And it was only because it's the onlything I knew how to do. You know, when I was a teenager and a kid and justgetting into my teens, I worked on construction sites, moving bricks andwhatever else they needed me to move so I could make a couple of bucks so Icould go get some candy or do whatever I needed to do. And then when I became ateenager and I wanted to drive, guess what? Cars cost money. Gas cost money.Insurance cost money.

those things. So I did what I did. And then I went tocollege and again, didn't want to go to college for construction, needless tosay. So went for finance and actually from that, went in and started my careerin consumer packaged goods, which we call CPG. And like I said, it wasn't like,I found the ultimate job for myself. And I was so excited. I was proud that I,that I was employed. I wanted to do well.

for my bosses and I wanted them to be, I always took theattitude, I want you to be happy that you've invited me into your company. Iwant you to look back and say, you know what, when I brought Glenn in, that wasan excellent choice. So that was always my mantra and whatever I did. And I'vebeen in sales, I've been in marketing, I've been in finance, I've been insupply chain. And I really just started with all those different roles. Andthose roles just keeping.

the knowledge of what I was doing and how it was done andworking with some amazing people. I mean, I'm, you know, Xcalog, Xpepsi. Imean, these are big, multi-billion dollar companies that do it well. They do itoften, do it well. So I got a chance to work with a lot of great teachers. Soeven though it wasn't my passion, I still made sure that I learned. Cause Iknew at some point I would find my passion and I need this experience andexpertise in what it was I was gonna do. Cause honestly, growing up,

Glenn Gardone (05:01.079)

I didn't know what the word entrepreneur meant. I didn'tknow even how to spell entrepreneur, nevermind know what one was, you know,just that wasn't the background I came in with. I just knew I wanted a fewbucks in my pocket so that if I wanted to buy something, I had the cash for it.That was success to me.

Mudassir (05:19.182)

Okay, that's pretty much the success to most of people todayas well. Coming back to a couple of points that you made about passion,entrepreneurship early on. So there's like a few things that I want you tocover on that. How important do you think it is to find the passion in yourlife? Because I know a lot of people in startup world, more so than incorporate world.

they're like not able to find that passion thing. Like theyhave built businesses, successful one. We had a guest a few weeks ago and thenhe was telling a story about his friend and he was like, that dude runs threecompanies. Each company is doing 50 million plus a year. So, and then he has afew investments here or there, like all of that stuff. And that dude hates likeall of them. Like he hates all the companies, but wildly successful. So howimportant is it to have a passion in life?

And another question on how that is like, how do youactually find the passion as well?

Glenn Gardone (06:17.991)

So, do I think you need to have the passion to besuccessful? No. But you also, you need more than just smarts. Because you know,what's the old saying? The road is littered with intellectual derelicts. Youknow, so being the smartest at the table, it's not a plus, believe me. I thinkit's important to find your passion. I do. Because there is definitely adifferent feeling within your world.

both personally and professionally, when you find thatpassion. And I think, you know, passion is a journey. You know, again, I toldyou earlier, I have two boys, both of my boys found their passions very earlyon and are both chasing their dreams. And I love the fact that they are me.That didn't happen to me. Like I said, I was in business for 20 years, youknow, working and toiling away. And, you know, again, doing what I had to doand being successful at it. But it wasn't like I, you know.

I didn't go to sleep on Sunday night excited that I waswaking up on Monday morning. But I knew I had to wake up on Monday morning andI knew I'd be good and I'd be the best I could and I'd be one of the best inthe company, the industry, so on and so forth. But that was just from sheerpushing on my part to say, you know what, I want to be the best. That's justme. That's my competitive spirit, I guess. I think it's, you know, passion isimportant, but being competitive is just as important.

I think if you want to go into an entrepreneur, you want toleave the softness of corporate, which we all have that. We get our two weeks,you close your computer, and off you go and you enjoy your two weeks. Well, ifyou're an entrepreneur and you run your business, guess what? So I've had thefortune of having a couple of different mentors in my career. And one of them saidto me as I was starting to go in my own business, he said, Glenn, just knowthis. Everybody loves Friday except for you.

He said, because Friday is usually payday. You, you're gonnaget paid on a Tuesday, a Wednesday, whenever the hell there's money left over,that's when you're gonna do it. And I spent a lot of years with a lot ofdifferent projects that I did where I was working a lot of hours and not makinga lot of money, but I knew that I was on the right path. And so, you know, youhave to, I think when you work for somebody, don't look at it as, oh, this isjust a waste, because that's the worst thing to do, because then you arewasting your life away.

Glenn Gardone (08:42.787)

when you're with that organization say okay what am I doinghow is this being done how can this be done better because you never know whatyou're going to have to tap back into your you know your personal piece on whatyou did and that's what makes people successful.

Mudassir (08:58.43)

100% agree to that. You mentioned one thing that both yoursons, they have found the passion and they're doing what they love. Verydifferent question than most people would ask you. Do you think passion is aprivilege?

Glenn Gardone (09:12.903)

Do I think passion is a privilege? Yeah, yeah, passion isdefinitely, it's a right and a privilege. And what I mean by that is we allhave the right to find our passion, okay? But that doesn't mean that passioncould help you financially, because some passions just won't. But that doesn'tmean you don't have the right to chase your dream. But know that there areresponsibilities with chasing that dream.

Sometimes you're chasing that dream and it's the wrong dreamAnd you have to know for yourself. Okay, you know what, you know, you don't godown the path the old saying rome is burning You know you don't do that and youknow if it's the same thing that's happening over if you're in a business andyou've tried Dozens of different ways and you know, you're exhausted and youreally don't see a path forward Then just shake it off. Don't look at it as afailure. Don't think yourself. Oh my goodness. No just say you know what?

the timing may not be right now. You know, again, I run achocolate company, okay? And so I tell you with my sales organization, like Itell them all the time, you're not gonna hit 10 for 10, you're not. If this wasa sport and we were playing baseball, the greatest baseball player, thegreatest hitter, hit the ball four out of 10 times. That's the greatestbaseball player of all time. He hit over 400, that's four out of 10 times.

If you're in business and it's four out of ten, you're gonnafail. So you got to make sure it's at least six or seven out of ten. But thatmeans that there are going to be some times where you don't get the success,you don't get the sale. And that's not, you don't go in and kick the wall andoh my goodness, a person like me, the way I did it was, I looked at it andsaid, okay, where was the error? How was this incorrect? And I tried to learnfrom that. You know, when I go in and I meet with one of our partners, I ensurefor myself,

that I feel I have a pretty good command of the situation.That doesn't mean I have it fully. You know, I'll walk in and talk with one ofour retail partners. You know, we're in 12,000 store doors. I'll sit down withone of our retail partners and it's the same statement. Look, I know RedChocolate. I know it better than anybody in this room. It's my job. But youknow the consumer, the consumer that goes to your chain. So we need to makesure that we have the partnership, we have the connection. Here's who's buyingRed.

Glenn Gardone (11:39.471)

And here's who I see in your stores. Am I correct if it'syeah, you're right or no, you know what? That's not even close to what it is.I'm usually pretty damn close, but still I'm never perfect So and that's howyou learn and you know, you sit there and you know again, I think passionEverybody should strive to find it But like I said if I if my entire focus wasjust finding my passion I'd ruin 20 years of my life my business life

That's not the way I want to live.

Mudassir (12:10.594)

That makes sense. That makes sense. Coming back to sales inparticular and marketing as well, and you said you started out a business withjust a business card and then build it to a 30 people company, obviouslyprofitable and stuff like that. How did you manage to sell it easily and foundsuccess so early on? Because a 21 years old kid, and one small context here is,

With all the knowledge and stuff like that we have availabletoday, like you can have courses, you can find mentors pretty easily, stufflike that. It's easier to be successful now, even though that's not the case.But anyhow, it was not that easy to be that successful early in the days. Sohow did you manage to sell it, scale a company, build a profitable business soearly on? And you were in the college at the same time.

Glenn Gardone (13:01.063)

So my entire focus when I started and while I ran it was tohave amazing customer service because I was going on and bidding on projectsthat people in their 40s and 50s were, and they were looking at me saying, do Ireally wanna give this restaurant that I'm about to build to this young kid?And it was a lot of that. And so I needed to make sure that when they knew theywere working with me, that they were gonna get the best and they were gonna gethonesty.

You know, we all love to please, you know, I mean, pleaseourselves, please others. But sometimes you just can't and you have to admitthat you can't to yourself. So what I did was I just made sure that everythingthat had my name on it, the company's name was done to the best of ourabilities. And if that meant we had to do it twice, then we did it twice. If itmeant that I had to eat some of my profitability, but that the name was good.

then that's what we did. And so I grew from there and it wasa lot of word of mouth and making sure that people knew when they brought uson, it was going to be a successful business. Because, you know, again, I wasat Pepsi. One of the things that Pepsi taught you was facing the cans. Becauseif you go into a grocery store here in America or anywhere in the world, you'llsee your Coca-Cola area, you'll see your Pepsi area, you'll see your all otherarea. Well, the whole idea was,

to make sure your area looked the best, looked theprettiest, because that is part of what we call the shopping experience. So ifyou walk in and you see everything lined up perfectly and the flavors wherethey're supposed to be, and everything looks good, it shows you got a littlerespect for your business, a little respect for your job. And so, you know, ifyou wanna be an entrepreneur, have respect for the role, have respect for thejob, have respect for yourself, but understand sometimes,

you will have to eat, as they say, eat a little crow. Andyou will have to, because it happens. It happens in business.

Mudassir (15:03.982)

Okay, yeah, totally, Spartan, I think. One thing that youmentioned specifically around entrepreneurship a little while ago, do you thinkin today's world, like you go to Twitter, and I think you guys use Twitter aswell, for a company as well, you go to Twitter and there's like, every kid isan entrepreneur, like every kid is an entrepreneur, everybody is anentrepreneur. I was hiring somebody, like very small story.

I was hiring somebody and then he had the title,entrepreneur, a few other adjectives, you know, something like that, I've donethis thing, I've done that thing, and he was applying for a junior developmentrole. I was like, man, what the hell is that? Like, you know, like what thehell is that? So everybody has that word entrepreneurship. And I think, again,personal opinion, I think most people are misusing that word, or that word hasbecome overrated. What do you think about that?

Glenn Gardone (16:01.299)

I think it's, I think both. I think it's, I think it'soverused. And I think that, you know, if you have a paper route, you're not anentrepreneur. You know, if you're, if you're on Twitter and you've got 16,000 followers,you're not an entrepreneur. You're not, you know, you're somebody who's doingsomething that can, you know, create a buzz, create excitement. But I think,you know, to, to consider yourself an entrepreneur, you have to really begiving something to get something back.

In other words, you know, what is it? How are you, how areyou building the greater good in society? You know, I've seen people, you know,millions of followers and they'll come out with a product, you know, becausethey want to use it on their name. Well, that's really, that's not being anentrepreneur. That's just, you know, using your name, using your success. Causeis it really something that you believe in? Is it something that should be doneor are you just doing it to chase the buck? And I think the, you know,consumers are going to know, you know what? This is just a.

A flash in the pan. This is BS. I'm not going to getinvolved in this. There are some that will fall prey to it, but many, manywon't.

Mudassir (17:07.074)

Do you think there's something wrong with just chasing abug?

Glenn Gardone (17:11.015)

Do I think there's something wrong with chasing the buck?Yeah, because it's gonna end up biting you into the you know what. Because ifyou chase a buck, you may catch it, but you're gonna miss a whole bunch ofopportunities. And a lot of times when you chase the buck, you're chasing itfor the wrong reason. You know, again, Red, we are an extremely profitableorganization, but we don't do it for the profits. I'm not a transactionalcompany. I'm a relationship.

Mudassir (17:17.015)

Mm-hmm.

Glenn Gardone (17:38.215)

You know, if you think about red chocolate, if you thinkabout the clothes you buy, it's a very personal choice. It's what you'rewearing. Now I want you to think about what you put in your body. How much morepersonal is that? So if red chocolate being chocolate is put in your body, Idon't want this to be a transaction. So if it's a transaction, then it's allabout dollars and cents and profitability, you know, top line, so on and soforth. We don't look at it that way because we know we've got a great, amazingproduct. We know we can satisfy the needs of millions of people every singleday.

And so we just continue with our message of what we believein. And are we right for everybody? No, we're not. You know, 88% of the peopleat that Tri-Red love us. They love us. 12%. They like a more sugar chocolate orthey may like something different. And yeah, I can't please everybody, but Iwill please the people who truly understand our mission and what we're tryingto do and they'll love us.

Mudassir (18:34.654)

Okay, going back to customer support and stuff like that. SoI know a few things about CPG, D2C, stuff like that, because that was my laststartup, so that was built around that. And one thing I just wanna ask you isbecause every single time, so I worked with brands like Lululemon, RecessDrink, so that was like in food and beverage fashion. We worked with Noctua, weworked with Bala, stuff like that, so we worked with all these.

Glenn Gardone (18:47.155)

Mm-hmm.

Mudassir (19:02.806)

Big, you know, famous brand or something, you can say that.And everybody I talked to, everybody was like very, very focused on customersupport. What I understand is most people don't understand the meaning ofcustomer support. So all they know is, so I bought something from Glenn, Ibought something from his company, whatever you're selling, and I don't like theproduct, so can I refund it? Can I get a refund for that? Yeah, absolutely youcan. Can I return it? Yeah, absolutely you can. Okay, like what else is there?

when it comes to customer support. Oh, my order hasn'tarrived, so can you please send me a tracking ID? Can I talk to somebody?That's where people draw a line, like yeah, okay, that's the customer support.And that's, we're doing the best of the best service or something like that.How do you guys differentiate that, and what's your definition of customersupport, given all the experience you had in CPGs, companies, they're like big,big names, and now your own company.

Glenn Gardone (19:54.491)

Mm-hmm. So, at Red, customer support to us is truly theentire experience. Customer support comes from when the product is packed hereand let's talk D to C, you know, we're the number one chocolate sold on thehome shopping network. We were on TV, you know, the other night, as a matter offact, and we'll ship out, you know, a couple of thousand orders. We do all thedrop shipping. And what we do is from when the product is placed,

from the way the label is placed on the box, it all becomespart of the experience. And you know, when you get the box, what the box lookslike, when you open the package, how it was packed, from opening the product,from enjoying the product, if there's questions about it, like you said, beingable to ask, whether it be email, I mean, we get, you know, thousands of emailsweekly, and we respond to every single one of them. We respond to every singleone of them, and we get phone calls, and we respond to them.

You know, I remember one of my first times, I happened to beon TV on the home shopping network and I had just gone off and of course, youknow, your phone's off, you're on TV. And I'd gotten off and turned my phoneback on and there were a couple of notes from some folks back at the office.And so I called them and they said, hey, we got a phone call from somebody theywere asking for you. I said, okay. So they gave me the, you know, the phonenumber and the name and I called the person, you know, hi, you know, and hername was Marge, because I still remember. I said, hi Marge, how are you? Thisis Glenn Garon. And she said, no, this really isn't Glenn. I said,

Yeah, this is Glenn Garon Marge. How can I help you? She wasare you the one that was just on TV? I'm like, yeah, she was oh my god. I owemy friend a box of chocolate I said, what are you talking about? She saidbecause you said on TV that if somebody called you, of course You'd talk tothem and I called you not ten minutes ago and here you are talking to me. Sothat's the customer service That's part of the experience again. We're not atransaction. It's not that you bought red That's just the first step in therelationship

And I think customer service, customer support, that's, itshould be relationship support because it's a relationship I'm in witheverybody who eats red chocolate. My entire team is in a relationship witheverybody and we do it because we love to do it because it's the right thing todo and it's what we believe in. We're not trying to, you know, do it becausethose guys over there did it or we want to be better than these guys. We do itbecause it's what we want to do.

Glenn Gardone (22:19.111)

because we think it's the right thing to do.

Mudassir (22:22.282)

Yeah, speaking of experience, so one thing comes to mind,and that's Apple with all the weird goggles thing that they came out the otherday. I think they put a lot of thoughts into whatever they're packing, a lot ofthoughts, right? You can unbox from an iPhone to an AirPod to an iMac, likewhatever, and you'll have that experience. It's actually in the packaging. Samething that you said. Do you think?

Glenn Gardone (22:30.716)

Mm-hmm.

Mudassir (22:52.03)

any entrepreneur, any company, they can charge premium ifthe experience is good.

Glenn Gardone (22:56.983)

Oh, yes. Yeah, it was so I call that the value propositionand when I say value I could line up ten people and The value proposition wouldbe seven different types one could be just price And you know what I call thatto race to zero you want to be in that that's up to you I've never been in thatbusiness and I'm not about to go into that business others are does it save metime Does it excite me do I enjoy it? I mean these are all part of the

Mudassir (23:01.409)

Okay.

Glenn Gardone (23:24.615)

value proposition. So I think you could look at something aspart of the overall experience and definitely I think how it affects theconsumer that's part of the value proposition. You know and could you priceyourself out of the market? Yeah, you could and you'll know quickly because youwon't be having sales. I mean it's pretty simple and you know don't be upset atthe consumer because that's who you're ultimately talking to and I you know Italk to a lot of consultants and I help consultants.

And I always tell them, look, if they, if the, you know, theperson you're talking to says, no, don't take it personal. It's just not theright time. And I always tell people, you know, I've always heard, you know,you read books, oh, turn a no into yes and blah, blah. Yeah, you could spend alot of your time trying to turn nos into yeses, or you could ask a simplequestion, why is it a no? And if they go, well, I'm just not interested in whatyou do. All right, well, guess what? There's seven other billion people onearth. Go ask the other seven billion. And when you get to the end,

and you've gotten all your yeses, now you can go back to thenos. But don't sit there and spend four days on somebody who said no, justbecause you need to close it. That doesn't work, because you just missed 27yeses.

Mudassir (24:35.298)

That's a different perspective a lot of people need to have.Like the focus, the audience, the people that they're talking to, and mostimportantly, asking the right question. A lot of people don't ask the rightquestions. So they're asking like random questions and stuff like that. Comingback to...

Glenn Gardone (24:47.227)

Or they're afraid to get the answer. That's usually whathappens. Because see, if you, you know, especially as an entrepreneur, ifyou're selling something, if you and I are talking, oh, I can still get thissale. But as soon as I ask you, you know, so what do you think? Do you thinkthis is an opportunity? And you go, no, not at all. Oh my God, I just, youknow, I just lost. And then you feel like you're supposed to, you know, slinkback into the corner and suck your thumb. So as long as I keep the conversationgoing, there's a chance for me.

No, all you're doing really is just having a conversation.

Mudassir (25:20.206)

So a lot of people actually are avoiding that, therejection. But what they do is they just prolong the same conversation over andover and over again, hoping.

Glenn Gardone (25:28.123)

happens to me all the time. I talk to people all the time,you know, I get vendors that call and you know, I'm always friendly, but youknow, I'm busy and I'm hoping they're busy and I always use the same statement.Look, I know you got to make money. I'm the wrong guy for this. This is notright for me, but you know, if it is I'll call you, but I don't see it happen.

Mudassir (25:49.758)

Okay. You mentioned that you work in big, big companies.Yeah, what was it like working with big companies, big CPG brands? Like what'sthe essence of working in all these big companies? What's the insideinformation is there?

Glenn Gardone (26:04.839)

So for me, being employee 10,936, what it affords you is theexperience from others, the expertise of some great people. There is a bit of alemming mentality, which you gotta get used to. And entrepreneurs in general,it's tough to be employee 10,604, it really is.

But with big companies, you will definitely get theinfrastructure needed to understand what is needed to be done. So like I said,I spent 15 years, whatever it was, within big companies. And I didn't see it asa waste. I actually, for me, it helped me because I got to see how toprofessionally run P&Ls, how to look at businesses with non-emotional eyes.

I remember being in rooms and talking about brands, andagain, they weren't tied to people, it was just brands that were owned thatwere floundering, and people going, oh, let's just get rid of that. And you seethe person over in the corner who that was their baby, and they're like, yeah,it failed, let's get rid of it, let's move on. It's like, okay, I see. It waslimited emotion for that on the brand side. And then you work with people, youget a chance to understand people. When you're on your own island,

You know, it's a lot different than when you're on an islandthat holds 50 and there's 70 of you. You really got to get to know yourneighbors. And that's a good thing too, because it helps you understand how toplay in the sandbox.

Mudassir (27:41.77)

Yeah, agreed. So I have one very personal question.Personal, or you can say selfish question, because I always wanted to learnsomething from somebody who has that big of an experience. And I think I havean answer, but I don't think I have an answer for that. So somebody like youwho has been into big companies, startups, understand the supply chain, allaspect of marketing sales and stuff like that, how come two brands actuallymaking the same thing?

exactly the same thing, almost exactly the same thing,co-exist. Pepsi and Coke, you look at Nike and you look at Adidas. I don't wantto compare Apple with Samsung, but okay, if you want to take that. But yeah,the two big ones are Nike and Adidas and then Coke and Pepsi. So, and thequestion that I want to ask you is, so Coke is making somewhat of a same brand,like somewhat of a same drink, right? It's carbonated, it's black, it's stufflike that.

And Pepsi is doing the same thing. Both happens to have abig, big market here. So they're marketing differently, they're marketingdifferently. How come they both coexist? And why they just cannot eliminate oneover the others? Or you can take BMW and Mercedes, probably the same thing.Yeah.

Glenn Gardone (28:57.443)

Right. So the easiest way for me to explain that is Coke hastheir market share. Okay. And Pepsi has their market share. And I'm going totake the American market. Globally, it's almost a mirror image, but let's talkAmerican market. So you have Coke with a 40% market share, we'll say. You havePepsi with a 40% market share, yet you'll see them on ad every other week. Now,Coca-Cola has got a hundred percent household penetration. Pepsi-Cola.

has a hundred, everybody's tried a Coke or a Pepsi. Youknow, you walk into a restaurant, can I get a Coke? And they're like, we onlyserve Pepsi, all right, whatever. Like you said, it's sugar water, who cares?The reason they can coexist is for one reason and one reason specifically. Andwhat they fight for is not for their own market shares. It's for that 20%. Andwhat I mean by that is, you know, Coca-Cola has its form and functionality andits flavor profile.

Pepsi has its form and functionality, which is the exactsame, but it has a differentiated profile. Yes, it's still carbonated sugarwater, but the flavor profile is different. Just like you can say root beer iscarbonated flavor water. Why would you need a root beer? Well, the idea isagain, what you have is you have those market segments that like that product.And then the reason for the ads, those kinds of things are what we call pantryloading. The idea is that, oh, I'll pick whatever's on sale.

I'm that 20%. I'm not brand loyal. And so if I do in thatand I pick up whatever, enough product lasts me for two weeks, then thefollowing week, I don't need to buy that other brand. So that brand who Ibought won. And that's that 20%. That's why you see sometimes on ads and thingslike that during specific holidays. All of it is negotiated before the yearbegins. And so that's why, even like with cars.

You know, guys, it's a steering wheel, four tires. You wantelectric, you want gas. But yet you see all these different brands. And thereason is, is because the brands become a badge to the consumer. Brands thatare successful are usually become a badge of honor to the consumer. People say,hey man, I got an iPhone, I got the new 14. Other guys say, you know what, Igot the new Samsung. You know, and the true Samsung people.

Glenn Gardone (31:22.351)

Look at iPhone people like they're crazy and the true iPhonepeople look at everybody else and say, you're crazy. But yet you got that othergroup that says, what does T-Mobile have a deal on? Okay, I'll take one ofthose. And so that's why. So you build up your brand, you build up youressence. It's the same thing at Red. Luckily we're so differentiated thatthat's our reason for being, but we always get competitors that try to be likeus. Luckily they haven't and that's good.

But you know, that's not to say somewhere in the wings,there's somebody who will be able to somewhat match us. I don't worry aboutthat. I worry more about are we doing what we're supposed to? Because if I dowhat we're supposed to and my team does what they're supposed to do, whatevercompetition comes up, it's not gonna be a massive threat unless we're not doingthe job we're supposed to. And in the last four years, we're one of the top sellingbrands in America.

Mudassir (32:17.486)

It's amazing. Why do you think some companies are managed togo as big as Apple or as big as Pepsi, Coke? And then they are CPG companies,right? And then there's the other ones that I just mentioned, and you knowprobably half a million of those, more than I do. But they just are not gonnamake, like you know that for sure, these companies are not gonna be aroundafter 100 years. They're probably not gonna be around after 20 years, let alone100 years.

like what sets them apart like these companies like Coke, Idon't know when it was founded like in 1800s, I don't know something like that.So it's been like decades now and especially because it was privileged enoughto work in a supply chain startup. So I know every other day somebody startingup a new business, somebody starting up a new, I don't know, apparel thing,somebody starting a new Coke or something like that, somebody's in coffee orsomething. Everybody's starting something. Why don't these brands get to apoint

Glenn Gardone (32:52.755)

Mm-hmm.

Mudassir (33:15.958)

where they become a brand, they get global recognition. Andwhy they don't get to be a point where it's just like, yeah, it's a hundredyears old brand, everybody knows it, every household, you know, yeah, why?

Glenn Gardone (33:28.639)

I think because the economics change so drastically ascompanies mature. And what I mean by that is you look at Coca-Cola has been ona buying spree for years because carbonated soft drinks aren't what people arelooking for. It's still a multi-billion dollar behemoth in what they sell, butit's not seeing the growth that they need to see to sustain the stock price. Sothey'll go out and they'll buy vitamin water and all these other differentpieces that help.

because that's the growth category. I remember the day,Gatorade used to be owned by Quaker Oats, okay, for many years. And Pepsi camein and bought Quaker. They probably bought Quaker just because it had Gatorade.And so that's part of those economies where you can swallow up the brands. Wesee a lot of big companies coming in and it's just easier for me to buy you outthan it is just to try and see if I can build a brand like you.

So I mean, you know, I've been fortunate enough to, youknow, sell five companies to bigger companies. And the reason is because I'llbuild it up, show that the business model is successful, grow it beyondeverybody's expectations. And then a large organization will come in and buildit. And, you know, I may get it to 200 million, they'll get it to 20 billion.And that's just the economies of scale. You know, I remember sitting inmeetings after selling one of my organizations and with the gentleman and, youknow, he had a billion dollar plus, you know,

budget from an advertising perspective for all of theirglobal brands. And when we were talking, he said, Glenn, what you spend is arounding error to me. For us, it was a lot of money. You know, we were a smallcompany and we were successful. He's like, we can handle it. Don't worry. I'mlike, okay, you got it. And so, you know, that's just, like I said, it's theeconomy's scale. And there are other brands that's that will do it. And, youknow, I think back again, can think of consumer packaged goods. Kellogg just isspinning off into three different companies.

There will be no more Kellogg company as we know it today.It's been around what, 120 years, 130 years? As of two months from now, it'snot going to be that same company. Hence the different economies.

Mudassir (35:38.302)

Yeah, and then to your point, 20 million is a life-changingmoney for some. It's like drowning errors to others, right? So it's all aboutperspective. Okay, yeah, so again, just had another thought around thisparticular question. So most of the times, what I see is every single time youtalk to an entrepreneur, almost every single time, everybody has this thingthat we wanna just...

Glenn Gardone (35:45.563)

Yeah.

Mudassir (36:07.294)

make an impact in this world. I think almost everybody Iever talked to who is remotely related to entrepreneurship said the same thing.We just want to have an impact in this world. I never get to ask this questionto a lot of people. It's like, what kind of an impact? Define an impact. Whatdo you want to improve in this world? It's just the word, impact. Nobodydefines that. So, do you think, usually people are just building the money,building the company just for money?

And it's just a buzzword, like we're building it for impact.And a lot of people don't understand where the impact needs to be.

Glenn Gardone (36:42.621)

I think, well, I can only speak from personal. So, you know,red, I did it for personal reasons. 100% personal. So I'm a type two diabetic,okay? But I'm also an unapologetic chocoholic, all right? I love chocolate.Probably why I became a diabetic because I ate so much chocolate and it was allsugar chocolate. It wasn't good for you. And I had the opportunity to bring redchocolate here to America.

Mudassir (36:49.777)

Mm-hmm.

Glenn Gardone (37:06.939)

You know, we're in 28 countries globally, but I got thechance to bring it here to the U.S. and to the U.K. And by doing so, I finallybrought a chocolate that I could eat. Now, of course, I knew that there were alot more people like Glenn than, you know, that wanted the same type of option.And so the impact that we have is on those individuals that wanted to indulge,but they didn't want to indulge in the products that were out there becausethey were they were not what they were looking for.

You know, people call us healthy chocolate. I hate thatterm, because there's no such thing as healthy chocolate. We consider ourselvessmart indulgence. You know, we're smart about, you know, if you eat red, it's alittle smarter, because less calories, less fat, no sugar, those kinds ofthings. So for me, the impact was, how can I affect people positively withintheir lives? Again, as I just circled back, and one of the most personal thingsthat you'll ever do, what you put inside your body.

So for us that impact was there but definitely I think theterm impact is overused like the term entrepreneur I think people think of as abuzzword But do they truly want to have the impact?

Mudassir (38:16.03)

Yeah, speaking of your personal reason why you started RedChocolate, so why did you actually start and how did you actually start that?Like what's the story behind sitting on a couch and like, yeah, okay, I wannahave a chocolate but I don't want to get in trouble with all the diabeticproblems. So let me just start another company. So how did that happen?

Glenn Gardone (38:35.759)

You know, this one actually fell into my lap. So redchocolate was around before I started actually. And so it was around forprobably a little over a decade. And I had known red chocolate through myinternational travels because again, I'm always looking for something I caneat. And so I can't have any kind of refined sugar. It just, it ruins me. Andso I found red chocolate actually in Heathrow Airport in London and I boughtsome, fell in love with it, went back cause I was sitting waiting for myflight,

Everything they had stuffed my overnight case and mybriefcase because like this is awesome I love this because I checked my bloodsugar afterwards and I didn't even get a spike in my blood sugar Which wasfriggin great. And so, you know, I fell in love with it. So but again, I didn'tknow the background to it I just knew that it was really good product and so aswe're saying we sold the company and I wasn't sure I was gonna do because I'ddone it five times and I actually got a call from the ownership group room. Wewere owned by two families

And they said look your names popped up a bunch with theincome to us. Can you talk with us? I was like sure so I went to New York andmet with the representatives and out of a four-hour meeting I spent the firstthree and a half hours telling them don't come to the US It'll chew you up.It'll spit you out. You'll go bankrupt and you've got an amazing company herebe happy But everybody sees America and you know The American consumer walkingaround with the dollar signs in their eyes because of you know, how much we buyit how much we consume You know, I mean, it's crazy

But the fact is, if you don't understand the American way inbusiness, you're gonna go bankrupt. You're gonna get pilfered. I mean, it'sthat simple. So, about three and a half hours into it, the person who wouldthen become my partner after said, "'Are you done?' I said, "'Yeah,I'm done.' I pretty much said what I wanted to say." And she said, lookedat me, she goes, "'So when do you wanna be a partner? When do you wannastart?' And I started laughing. I said, "'You know what? I love thisbrand.' I said, "'Let me tell you now really how I feel.'" And I wentthrough and like, "'So help us, help us.'" And I was like, "'Youknow what?'

Yeah, I want to invest, I want to do it, I want to be partof this. I think this could be massively successful. And so I took six monthsfrom when we signed the papers and I built an American company, you know, asupply chain, finance, uh, the entire marketing structure, our social mediafootprint, our sales team, our messaging, everything put together an amazingteam, my supply chain person. She's been with me for 15 years now. So she'scome from company to company with me and she's, she's brilliant.

Glenn Gardone (41:00.763)

You know, my head of marketing, she's been with me for along time. And, you know, she's one of the smartest women I've ever had thepleasure to work with. And we just, we have a great group of people here who,who care. And so we've been able to go from startup through a global pandemic,which pretty much shut the world down to over 12,000 store doors. We're on anAmerican military bases. We're in drug, we're in convenience store. We're thenumber one chocolate sold in the home shopping network. Consumers found us andwent, yeah, this is good.

And it's been a fun ride. It's been a real fun ride.

Mudassir (41:34.018)

Feels like you guys are just getting started.

Glenn Gardone (41:36.803)

Yeah, we have. It's you know, we've got some big, big planscoming up over the next couple of years, so we're excited.

Mudassir (41:44.162)

What makes red different? Like what did you guys put inthere? Like because I'm type two diabetes or pre-diabetes, you can say that,yeah. So why should I eat that? Because like what I do is, sorry to cut youoff, what I do is like usually is, so I count the calories and stuff like that,and I know if I need to eat something, I just need to spend like 30 minutesmore doing the cardio like something like that. So.

Glenn Gardone (41:49.443)

Okay, so, so.

Mudassir (42:09.202)

I mean, usually you get the same type of response. Like,okay, you're pre-diabetic, okay, you just need to walk more, you just need todo more cardio, you just need to do some more exercise or something. So, like,what exactly is it about red, and why should I use it?

Glenn Gardone (42:18.82)

Right.

Glenn Gardone (42:25.063)

So red itself, okay, so we're a European crafted chocolate.So we're completely different than American chocolate as it is because Europeanchocolate's crafted. It's a much more slower roasting process for the beans,the way that the product is crafted, everything about it is different. I tellpeople here in America, look, it's, think of it like a nice red wine. You'vegot the body, which is our coca bean, so to speak, and then you've got thedifferent notes.

Well, that's our whether it's orange and almond, whetherit's a hazelnut macadamia. So you've got those pieces when it comes to from ahealth perspective, which is me, because it's not just diabetics that eat us.See, we are we're 88 percent purchased by females. And so those females, theydo it in one of two for one of two reasons. And one, they're looking forsomething healthier, going for a healthy option because they're doing cardioand they're saying, you know what? I'm not going to put all this sugar in mybody. I work too hard. And this is what I want. And the other side is saying,you know what?

I've done everything I'm supposed to do. Now it's a littleme time. I'm gonna worry about me. And if you happen to be healthy, awesome.But I want it to taste good first. And so that's why they're having red.Because now we're awesome tasting, plus we're healthier from less carb, lessfat, less sugar, blah, blah. For somebody like you or I who's a type two, whatwe do is we actually use erythritol or maltitol. These are two sugar alcohols.

That don't affect your bloodstream. I don't like stevia.That's why we don't use stevia to me and it's just my opinion I just don't likethe aftertaste of it. You know Yeah Me too. It's just you know, i'm not a fanof it So we don't use it but you know with erythritol we can get the sweetnessfrom alto we can get the sweetness But it doesn't over sweeten it so we canstill get the creaminess of the chocolate. You know, we got um Yeah, you knowi'm gonna grab this. I always got chocolate around me brother, you know

Mudassir (43:53.934)

I hate that. I hate that thing. Yeah.

Glenn Gardone (44:15.207)

10 feet away from me, there's always some kind of chocolate.So this is, we launched this product last year. This is actually our red blondechocolate. And we hold 11 global patents, and our 11th patent is actually onthis. And what we do is, it's actually a caramelized, I do everything because Ilike it, just so you know. But it's a caramelized white chocolate. Now youthink about caramel, caramel sugar. Well, we're no sugar addicts, so I can'tuse caramel. So what we do is we take milk, we actually pull out the lactose.

We caramelize that and then we pour it into our whitechocolate base. So you get a an entire Chocolate caramel and then we launchedthis year. This is our vegan lineup right here And so this is with oat milkbase and the reason I love that is, you know We were we had a big show that wasa couple of weeks ago and uh all the major players there every Candy companyyou could think of and globally is at this show and somebody else had a veganoat milk

And it's funny, one of the people came over, one of theguests of the show came over and said, Hey, I heard you guys have a vegan, Iwanna try it, I'm vegan. I'm like, yeah. So, we gave her a bar and she triedit. She said, I just wanna tell you something. I said, what's that? She said, Itried the guys over there, theirs tastes like wallpaper paste compared toyours. And I laughed, I said, virtual hug, what can I tell you? I said, now youknow what, now I didn't tell her, this is literally the 133rd recipe that weput together.

The first 132 were not it, but that's 133. But again, theidea being that if we're gonna do something, we're gonna do it right. Folkslike yourself can eat it. Folks that are looking for a little bit of smartindulgence. We're guiltless, we're no guilt, all pleasure. I mean, it's thatsimple. So that's why people love us. That's why people have found us. Wetalked to a lot of people on social media every single week and we hear theirstories. And they're like, you know what? We just want something that's...

that's really good tasting, that's fair, you know, that'sreasonable. I mean, you know, yeah, we're kosher, we're non-GMO, you know,we're gluten-free, we never use cheap palm oils. We do everything you'resupposed to do, plus we do a little bit more.

Mudassir (46:28.666)

that differentiates you guys. You mentioned one thing thatwhen you were talking to your partners, and you were saying American market isgoing to eat yourself. And people have a very different perspective of Americanmarket. So why do you think people have a different opinion or differentperspective of American market? And what exactly is that differentiatesAmerican market? How do you differentiate American people in general theirbuying experience?

behaviors like how do you differentiate that?

Glenn Gardone (47:00.807)

So there's a lot of differences actually. It's tough to boilit down to only a couple. I think the biggest ones are how you deliver themessage because you gotta remember, when you're looking at the Americanconsumer, pre-COVID, we used to, our shopping experience was walking the aislesand you know, you know the American supermarkets, there's one on every streetcorner. And touring a market when there's 140,000 different skews,

You know, you can take your time and see the differentiatedstuff because there is definitely excess in many of the categories. Well, now,of course, you know, since the pandemic, the shopping experience has beenreally trimmed down from an in-store perspective. So how do you deliver thatmessage? And it's I think it's different for the American consumer than it isfor others. So I think that's important. How you partner with the differentretailers and how you go to market is very important. You know, it'd be greatif we could just, you know.

take a container from our facility in Europe and ship itdirect to one of my retailers. You can't do that. You have to split it up andit goes to, the retailer could have three different DCs. And so you would, youknow, so that's the supply chain function. I think supply chain, and if youdon't have a good supply chain, you know, you could be at 20, 25, 30% of youroverall cost could be tied up in supply chain, you know, with trucking. Youknow, remember, like I said, we're a chocolate company. In the summertime,

If I had to try to ship on a regular truck, I'd becomefondue. So we need to be refrigerated. So otherwise people, that will hurt ashopping experience. When somebody opens it and it's actually fondue and it'spouring out of their hand, that's not a fun experience. So I think thedifferent pieces, so I think the way you market your supply chain system, eventhe way that you work within the infrastructure that's here from a sellingperspective, it's much different than it is globally. There's a...

We don't write checks people don't write checks here Youknow what I mean those kind of things and that has a lot to do in business Sothe way that you have your credit systems, you know, you're aware of yourcredit systems It's a bunch of different things. It's not just one but thoseare probably the top parts for each one of the silos

Mudassir (49:14.59)

Yeah, one thing around CPG companies. Why is it so difficultto build a successful CPG company now? And I'm going to give you some contexthere. So I was around, you know, pre-COVID had some of the idea, like what washappening in the US market, especially when it comes to CPG brand. And I have avery different opinion on that. So I think a whole lot of people started almostsimilar kind of business. So, so for example,

Swimwear, okay, let's pick swimwear. So a lot of people,what they did was like, okay, import the parts from China that was white label,print your whatever on top of that, build a brand, spend some bucks onmarketing, and just raise that, I don't know, a million, a couple milliondollars or something like that, spend all of that into building a brand, doingthe marketing stuff, and then all of a sudden they're like, oh yeah, okay. Sowe're running a $25 million business, right? A lot of people have done that. Thatwas...

COVID, pre-COVID and the shopping experience changed. Peoplecame to e-commerce more. It was more de-deceasing. And then I think 2021 was agreat year for all these kind of brands. They grew pretty rapidly, hired a lotof people. Some expanded, some did not. But almost everybody made a lot ofmoney. They scaled. And then comes 2023. So I personally know a lot of thesebrands, they're shutting down businesses, letting people go.

shutting down the operations. That one thing is obvious,they did not build a sustainable business. Okay, cool, they didn't do it.Second thing that comes to mind is, they were like, that was a bubble andeverybody was like, take advantage of that. Okay, cool. But in general, why doyou think it's so hard to build a CPG company today? Like why?

Glenn Gardone (50:46.534)

and

Glenn Gardone (51:01.731)

I think the biggest, the biggest issue is just being able toget your message out to the right consumer and getting it out properly. Becauseagain, if you've got a MeToo product and it's 10 cents cheaper, you may last alittle bit. But you know, I go back to a story, you know, there were two majorretailers and they had Colgate toothpaste. And so this one retailer had comeinto the market.

where this other retailer had been for 30 or 40 years andput Colgate toothpaste on sale, 50 cents cheaper than the other company, theother person was selling it. So they took an ad out the following week and putit 50 cents cheaper than the other people were selling it. And then the twoweeks later, the people that had just come into the market put it 50 centscheaper. So instead of it selling at 2.49, over a six week period is down to 99cents.

The person that had the market came out and said, anybodywho comes into my stores gets a free Colgate toothpaste. So that's the race tozero. So the idea being that again, it was Colgate, toothpaste, you know, amassive brand, but that's how they were driving people. So I don't believe intrying to find something that's 10th the widget a, but I can do it cause it's10 cents cheaper. Cause I think that's a failing business model. I think, uh,the toughest part of building a CPG brand is getting the eyeballs from theconsumer.

Convincing the consumer that it is right the consumeragreeing with you that it's right Once you can get those three and as long asyou can have a sustainable business because like you said, you know Peoplebuild up to hire people things turn and you know, they and they fall off andthey're firing people, you know I'm happy we've never let a person go here Youknow, we when we add people we add people at a very consistent level

There was, you know, could I go out and pick up 40 peopleright now? Yeah, I'm sure I could. And, you know, it would lower everybody, buteverybody knows, hey, if I do that, what happens, you know, we don't have thatcrystal ball. So what we do is we ensure that we have a. Profitable today so Ican have a successful tomorrow, because if I'm only looking at today, guesswhat happens when everything changes, I start laying off people. If I'm onlylooking at tomorrow.

Glenn Gardone (53:25.435)

and I'm not keeping my eye on today, then today could failand there will be no tomorrow for me. So that's why I say, you know, I look atit as, you know, as the CEO, I have to plant seeds and I'm out planting seeds,which my senior leadership team is picking up and then they're planting seedsfor their team. And ultimately we're all fed. Cause if one of us doesn't plantseeds or enough seeds, then somebody's going hungry. So I think that's thebiggest thing. That's the toughest part on the CPG side is

just allowing the consumer to know your story, them agreeingto your story, and them agreeing that your product is as good as you think itis.

Mudassir (54:02.878)

Yeah. How do you, like what's the footprint here to find theright audience? Because a lot of people struggle, even though there's so muchinformation out there, so much material out there, but a lot of people do endup finding the wrong kind of audience for them. And once you do find the rightaudience, how do you develop a message and how you can make sure the message isdelivering exactly the way that it should be delivering?

and it's resonating with the audience. Like, how do you dothat? And that's purely marketing, I know that. How do you do that?

Glenn Gardone (54:32.939)

Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, for again, there's a lot of detailbehind that, but I'll make it a very quick summary. The messaging has to betrue to the brand. So you don't have a widget and go, this is for thisaudience. So what's the message I'm going to use? You actually have themessaging and understanding who your audience is and will they care about it?You know, if, you know, if I have something and it's, you know, geared towardswomen.

And my messaging is a male messaging. You know, if this isfor women, but my message is, you know, helps you with, you know, five o'clockshadow. Well, you know, the average woman doesn't worry about that, you know,so they won't care. So I think, you know, your, your product itself in aconsumer package goods, or even as a consultant, retail storefront, whatever itis, understanding who is going to be, who's going to be purchasing your goods,your services.

is paramount because you have to understand who that isbecause you'll never have enough money to just blanket to everybody. If you tryto take this and you want to go out to 360 million Americans, then you betterhave a whole bunch of money. I call it the hub and spoke system the way that wework and I've worked it for many times. What I mean by that is I will pickspecific markets that I want to win in because I know by winning in thesemarkets, I can then have it bleed into other markets. I'll give you an example.

A lot of years ago, I was part of a team that sold a hummuscompany. And what we did again, we were just a regional player, but we knew wewanted to grow and we knew we could grow. So what we did was we picked sixmarkets in the U.S. that we knew we had a win in. And I'll give you an example.Detroit, big Muslim population in Detroit knew high hummus because the averageAmerican didn't eat hummus at that point. So to try and sit there and explainto the average American what hummus was.

and how to use it and how good it is, it'd take forever andwe don't have that kind of money. So we went with the folks that, it was partof their history, it was part of their foods, it's what they grew up with, mom,grandma, making it, so on and so forth. So we wanted to win in those marketsand from those markets, that's when we started to branch out because we knew wedidn't wanna go to Lincoln, Nebraska first. That was not how we were gonna winthis market, how we were gonna win this war, so to speak. And so again,

Glenn Gardone (56:58.519)

Understanding your market now the messaging and how youdeliver that message It's kind of simple because once you know your you knowwho your target market is You'll know how to get the message to them You knowwhether it's through a social media footprint whether it's through Googleadvertising, you know, whatever it is You know, nobody can start off with TVadvertising. So you got to find ways I tell people all the time if I squeezefour quarters five better drop out

Mudassir (57:28.618)

Yeah, yeah. One thing is, coming from this particular talk,like finding the people who already know the product and you find the rightaudience. So here's a very different opinion. Not an opinion, but exactly athing that I have in mind is a lot of people are building products and they aresolving problems. So it's not like they're building something that nobodycares. It does solve a big enough pain point.

But most customers do not know that that's a pain point.Like I'll give you an example here. So what would usually, you know, when itcomes to software or something like that, I don't know, just giving you randomparts. So there could be a software that, you know, I come sit at my desk orsomething and it tells me what's my blood sugar level is, or this level or thatlevel is, okay. A lot of people would benefit from that, right? Because it'shealth and stuff like that. A lot of people would do. And somebody would.

went out and built this type of a product. And then theproblem is they need to spend a whole lot of money and they need to have a lotof resources in order to educate their audience. And because it takes so, solong to educate the audience, they just had to stop the product. So, which,yeah.

Glenn Gardone (58:49.983)

They went too wide. To be honest with you, they went toowide instead of too deep. They tried to educate everybody at once. Well, again,that's why I talk about the hub and spoke system. Especially as a startup, youcannot go and think, I'm just gonna go grab everybody. You can't do it unlessyou have the financial backing, and 99% don't. What you do is you go after aspecific market in a specific area.

Mudassir (58:53.951)

Okay.

Mudassir (58:59.34)

Yeah.

Mudassir (59:02.551)

Mm-hmm.

Glenn Gardone (59:17.019)

because that market, you know, I give an example. So, youknow, we have Red on an airline here in America. And they're a great partner ofours. And the reason I do it is, there's 125,000 people try our products everysingle day.

Glenn Gardone (59:35.707)

And again, there's 360 million people here in America. And Itold you, I gave you the numbers earlier, so let's knock out 40 million ofthose people who wouldn't like my product. I'm still not trying to talk to 320million people. I can't, I financially can't do it. And it would just becometoo garbled and too crazy. So what we do is we take specific areas of themarket of consumers that we know would think that our product is amazing. Andthose are the folks we talk to.

And then we continue to have the conversation. It's the old,there used to be back in the seventies, there was an old shampoo commercial.And the whole idea was tell two friends and then they'll tell two friends andso on and so on. And it'd be more and more people jumping on the screen. It'sthe same thing. If you tell enough people and they believe in you, they'regonna tell people. We get, you know, one of the things we do, again, as directto consumer, you know, there's a sheet that we put in with every order and youjust, you scan it.

And it asks you a couple of questions. One of thosequestions is, and then you get 10% off your next order. One of those questionsis, how'd you hear about us? You'd be amazed how many people say, friend,friend told me. Because if you think about it, if you're sitting there withyour friends, they go, hey, you know, I tried this, it's pretty good. Chancesare you're gonna say, you know what, I'll try it then, I could use that. Soagain, speaking to those specific segments, smaller segments, don't try to become$10 million overnight.

Mudassir (01:00:55.68)

Mm.

Glenn Gardone (01:00:59.939)

If you're if you're supposed to be 10 million dollarsovernight It'll get there on its own. You just need to make sure you get to thefirst million Get to the first million probably

Mudassir (01:01:08.514)

So it's more like, yeah, so it's more like if you're tryingto reach everybody, you're gonna end up reaching nobody. So it's just thatsimple, right? Okay. So another thing that you know, because we're talkingabout CPG and like I'm super excited about all these things because we were onthe different side of the spectrum. We were like on the tech side of the thing,okay, so you build this thing and all the time you talk to are the people whoare operators, right?

Glenn Gardone (01:01:17.105)

That's right. That's exactly right.

Mudassir (01:01:38.222)

people in supply chain, they run fulfillment industries,fulfillment companies, they run brands, stuff like that. So really happy tohear all these things. Knowing what you know today, if you were to start 20years ago, what strategies you would have implemented back then? That now youhave only learned because of your experience, because of the failures, becauseof the mistake you have made. So how would you do that differently?

Glenn Gardone (01:02:02.907)

I stayed in corporate America. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.No, what I would do differently is, the biggest thing is I'd have more patiencethan I did when I was a younger man. I didn't have as much patience as I do rightnow, so I didn't allow things to naturally ferment and foam. I pushed it along,sure, I got it to foam, but I pushed it along. I expend more energy.

to get to the same point that if I waited and allowed it todo it, I'd have gotten there anyway. I remember a mentor once told me, and Ihad no idea what it meant, but he said, "'Glenn, you're in a journey, nota marathon.'" And that was one of the stages I had to be in. I'm like, no,man, I'm in a marathon. I gotta go, I gotta rock and roll. He was right. And Idon't mean that as a marathon, just sitting around waiting. That's not what I'msaying. I'm saying...

Allow it allow it to be able to do what it needs to doNaturally because you're gonna get the same results It's gonna be less work andif it's less work that means a much better because less work But be you cantake that time and energy and put it to something else because there's alwaysgonna be something else You know some days it's like whack-a-mole You know youhit over here and also they got hit over here and also they gotta hit over hereAnd you know we call that whack-a-mole

Mudassir (01:03:28.574)

I think today most people would compare the same analogy toit's a sprint compared to marathon let alone a journey. People would not go tothat far, like no, it's a sprint. We just like, I don't know, 100 meter or 50meter sprint and a dash or something like that and we're done. And then theyspend like three weeks, four weeks pounding so hard, working so hard, spendingevery day, every night. And a few weeks, oh man, this is not working. Theydon't even give them exactly, right? Yeah.

Glenn Gardone (01:03:53.219)

Exactly. This is where... Exactly.

Mudassir (01:03:58.086)

What lessons do you have learned from all these years ofexperiences? And when you talk about lessons, tell us about your biggestfailure today. Like what was the lowest point in your life? Could be personal,could be professional. And how did that change you?

Glenn Gardone (01:04:15.064)

So what I would tell you is from what would I have, whatwould I, the experience side, I would tell you again, I go back to trust yourgut. You know what I mean? Because as you gain knowledge in your head andunderstanding of your surroundings, your gut instinct becomes stronger andstronger and stronger. And in the beginning, if you trust yourself,

and you're wrong, okay, learn from it. Try to think back,okay, where was I wrong? How did that thought not come to fruition? What wasit? You know, am I too much of a pessimist? Am I too much of an optimist?Whichever it is, but start to analyze and understand it so you can understandyour gut. Okay, so that's what I would say would probably be the most importantpiece. From a failure perspective, you know, I can't think of

failure where I would sit there and go oh my god I can'tbelieve that happened have I had hiccups along the way of course absolutely weall have you know but again I've never been that Roma's burning person I willtell you that I'm not the smartest person at the table and I like that I likesurrounding myself with smarter people I do and I talk to a lot of peoplewho've got a lot of expertise and

Simple I love listening to people's opinions doesn't meanI'm gonna go with it. I may take 2% of it I may take a hundred percent of it. Imay take none of it, but that doesn't mean I wasn't listening It just meansit's not right for the for the situation that's happening right now so I can'tthink of a Massive failure where I would you know if there was anything Iprobably went to Las Vegas one too many times And I shouldn't have gambled asmuch as I did, but you know a brother

We all need ourselves a little blow off. So it is what itis. You know what? I don't sit there and kick myself in the tush on things thathappen. I learn from it. I move on because I'm just human.

Mudassir (01:06:06.69)

Hahaha

Mudassir (01:06:19.69)

Okay, yeah, that's a very interesting perspective on that.But when you start a business, or anybody starts a business, I do believe thereare unfair advantages that you have over everybody else that enables you to getthere faster, to get there more quicker, stuff like that. What was your unfairadvantage, if we talk about that, before starting out all these businesses?

Glenn Gardone (01:06:39.897)

Oh yeah.

Glenn Gardone (01:06:46.399)

was the... Yep, no, no. I tell you, it's almost, it's beenvery consistent. The biggest unfair advantage I've had is I've had the need tobe successful combined with the fear of failing. So it's been a healthy dose ofboth. And so when somebody asked us to see if we can get something done, youfind out why. So in other words, you know, one of our retail partners wouldsay,

Mudassir (01:07:04.215)

Okay.

Glenn Gardone (01:07:16.443)

Do they really need it? Is it really a wild goose chase? Youknow, what is not being satisfied right now? You know, global pandemic, therewere a lot of people cutting products left and right, shelves were bare. Wewere shipping full. You know, my supply chain person saw it happening, youknow, the global supply chain issues happening six months prior and we werefull of inventory. Now that's one of those that you could say, oh man, youknow, we are a, you know, expiration style product. So if she was wrong,

It had cost us Two million dollars, but it was the rightthing to do because she I believed in her and I trusted in her And because ofit we were able to still grow because we were able to fulfill orders So I thinkour unfair advantage like you said is the speed You know if you think aboutsome of the big companies for them to do something It's got to pass through ahundred people's hands for us three And then we can decide does it make sense?It makes sense. Can we do it? We can do it You know, i'll have my qa personhere

We'll tell them what we need. We just did it for one of ourpartners and it'll become a...

Glenn Gardone (01:08:21.819)

mid eight figure program over the next two or three years.So, yeah. And it's because we were able to fulfill a need.

Mudassir (01:08:26.594)

Wow.

Mudassir (01:08:30.91)

Yeah. Okay, so you...

Glenn Gardone (01:08:32.431)

Now it took us two and a half months to do it, but everybodyelse said, no, we couldn't do it. Two and a half months later, we said, here wego. Here's what we can do. And they looked at it and went, that's exactly whatwe want.

Mudassir (01:08:43.83)

You mentioned one thing a couple too many times about, youknow, you've been praising your supply chain people, you've been praising yourmarketing people, your QA people, your customer support, and you're praisingthe whole team. How did you build a great team and how do you build a greatteam in general?

Glenn Gardone (01:09:02.983)

So, I can't teach computers, alright? But I can teach yousales, I can teach you marketing, I can teach a lot of things, but I can'tteach passion. So when I sit down and I talk with a person, if I don't see thepassion in them, and it's a personal passion, not, you know, rah rah, I'm nottalking about one of those, I'm talking about somebody who desires to be betterin their life, because here at Red, we're gonna make every individual better inour lives. And that better,

means different for different people. It could be betterfrom a financial perspective for some. It could be better from an educationalexperience for some. It could be better from an employment expertise for some.It could be better because they have steady work. I mean, like I said, there'smultiple reasons when working with anybody from Red. You know, my job is tocreate the culture that makes everybody want to be here.

Mudassir (01:09:33.046)

How exactly? Sorry to interrupt you.

Glenn Gardone (01:10:00.811)

I'll tell you I tell people all the time if you want to knowwhat the culture of your organization is Buy a couple of pizzas or somethingwhere people can sit around and eat, you know And what you want to do is youwant to look at that group don't get involved in it Don't talk as the leaderyou let them go in if they grab it and they leave You have no culture, but ifthey grab it and they sit down and everybody's talking You know, I remember atred a couple of times, you know I would just sit back and I just watch thegroup interact

You see people talking about personal things, aboutprofessional things, but they generally like being with each other. And that'spart of the culture because it's the respect. You know, anybody who comes inhere, I tell everybody the same thing from an intern to you know, somebodywho's joining one of our senior leadership teams here. Look, you've got a seatat the table. Your opinion matters. We may not be able to fully do it or maynot be able to do it at all, but your opinion matters. But understand, when wemove forward, we move forward together as an organization.

and we need commitment from everybody. And we get it, youknow, it's, you know, people, people like to be with something successful.People like to be part of that success. And, you know, I look for nobody to dowhat I do. I work six, seven days a week. I do what I need to do. Some days I'mhere for nine hours, other days I've been here for 13 and a half hours. I lookfor nobody else to do that. I don't sit there and open up doors, oh, they leftearly, look, is your job done? Did we get done what we need to get done? Rockand roll, all good.

And so some people will leave it too and say, you know what?I got my stuff done. I want to take off because I want to, you know, hang outwith my kids or I want to go have lunch with my boyfriend or whatever.Beautiful. Go have fun. Come back full and energized.

Mudassir (01:11:28.823)

You mentioned.

Mudassir (01:11:41.31)

You mentioned one thing, and I'm a huge advocate of that,and that is building the right kind of culture in your organization. I'm gonnaquote a survey here, I forgot when it was taken. So it was, I think, at 70%,but I think it fell down to like 66% or something like that. So two-thirdpeople in the US hates the job they have. More importantly, 75% of the peoplehate the employer that they have, the employer that they work in.

75%. That's like, that's what like three out of four people.

Glenn Gardone (01:12:16.195)

That's insane. That sucks.

Mudassir (01:12:18.494)

Yeah. And how, you're speaking of that, and most people youget to talk to, it's just like, it's such a toxic culture. I just don't wannago to that office, and people are constantly, if you look at the job market,that's what people are doing. I'm working with Glenn, and I don't like itworking with Glenn. I don't like working with any of the team members that youhave out there, but I'm just here just for the paycheck or something like that,but I'm actively looking out there to find a new job.

And the moment I get it, it doesn't matter if you can pay memore, it doesn't matter if you can give me, I don't know, two weeks off orsomething like that. My decision was already made. The moment somebody offeredme, I don't even care what kind of a culture do they have. I'm just so sick andtired of whatever you have. I'm just going to go. It's like, done. It's done.I'm just leaving right away. Right? Why do you think that's happening?Especially around culture.

Glenn Gardone (01:13:06.384)

Right.

Glenn Gardone (01:13:12.007)

Well, it's interesting, you know, Red, I'll talk about Redfor a second. Then I'm going to talk about that culture. So, you know, we workwith a couple of local colleges and we have interns here. And so we had anintern, a great young man, you know, working hard, just got along witheverybody was one of those, one of those guys that, you know, put his financehat on. And so he said, Hey, we need some help over here. He'd take his financehat off and, you know, put on his other hat and he'd run over and help. And hewas just, he was a good all around person. He's a very good man.

And he was interviewing because he wants to go into themoney management industry. That's what he wants to do. That's what his degreeis in. And I remember, you know, he was telling me, Hey, you know, I've got a,you know, job interview coming up and like, Hey man, you know, here's somepointers for what it's worth, you know, make sure you talk about this, youknow, blah, blah. You know, and off he went. And I see him like three dayslater. He's in the office. I'm like, Hey, come here. And he's like, and hewalks in, he's like, Oh Sean, like, Hey man, how'd it go? How'd the interviewgo? Did everything go all right?

He's like, that's why I need to talk to you. I'm like,what's the matter, what happened? They made me an offer. I'm like, and I gavehim a hug. I'm like, you did it, congratulations. I was excited for him. So,you know, here at Red, I always want people to be better for themselves, okay?If we're not delivering for you, we've never had a person leave because weweren't delivering for him, but like a fellow like that who was here gave hisheart and actually felt bad because he was gonna be leaving.

You know, that made, it made me feel good that I was givinghim a spot that he felt that warm and that welcoming, which is wonderful. Ifelt bad that he felt bad. I think what happens is companies become toxicbecause of one reason. The good people leave. See, cause you'll have two typesof people. You're going to have people that are good and say, you know what? Idon't want to deal with this anymore, man. I'm going to go over here. And Idon't care. Like you said, what the pasture is like over here. I just know Ihate it here.

And they're gonna leave. They're the first ones to leave.Because they're good. They're gonna be successful wherever they go. That leavesbehind what? Low tide. So when you've got low tide, and all you've got istoxicity, it breeds upon itself. And then the mediocre people are the ones thatsay, ah man, I can't. Because you'll have people like, I'm outta here, I don'tneed this, and they go. And then you've got that group in the middle that'slike, ah, it's okay, but you know, I got my own thing, and I gotta worry aboutmy family, and I gotta, ah, you know, I'll just keep my head down and keepgoing.

Glenn Gardone (01:15:37.851)

But then the toxicity starts to bubble up them and they'relike, you know what? I just can't handle this anymore. And they go, and thenyou're literally left with nothing. It's like, you know, a person's stockportfolio. A lot of times they'll sell the winners and keep the losers hopingthat the losers are going to go back up because nobody wants to call themselvesa loser. It's the same thing in business. You're good people leave becauseyou're allowing the bad people to, you know, run the asylum.

Mudassir (01:16:03.618)

Whose fault is that?

Glenn Gardone (01:16:06.139)

That would be management's fault completely whoever is incharge of that culture and you know, if you think about it, it's it it's It's adefinitely a top-down situation You know what? What is what is the ceodiscussing now if we're talking about from an entrepreneur a very smallbusiness It's usually the managers who's ever managing the people And that'sthe toxic part because ultimately it's a ceo's fault

Mudassir (01:16:09.251)

leadership.

Glenn Gardone (01:16:32.663)

Okay, it is and especially a small company and the reasonit's a ceo's fault is because they're supposed to have a Purview or an overviewof the entire, you know business model and if they have somebody who They'reallowing to be toxic meaning a manager allowing to be toxic to employees Uh,you know what shaman m they're failing. They're failing their own company.They're failing themselves You know sometimes i've seen where someentrepreneurs like having the bad guy in the room so they could be the good guy

Well, that's terrible because then it becomes a, you know,us against them kind of thing. And so you start playing off each other, whichyou don't want to do. So, you know, in a small company as the owner, as theleader, as the CEO, take the responsibility, fix the situation and move on.Cause if you don't, if you sit there and let it fester, it's just going to makeyour business fail. I don't care how successful you are. If you know thebiggest assets, I have two assets with this organization. I've got the brand.

red chocolate, I've got the people. Those are my two assets.Forget the equipment, forget everything else. The reason I'm successful isbecause the people that walk outside this office and that walk in these hallsand the brand that consumers love. I couldn't do it without either one of them.

Mudassir (01:17:51.038)

as a CEO of a small business, and I consider 50 peoplebusiness as a small business, just for this particular example, what is yourone fundamental responsibility that a job that you need to be performingreally, really well? Like one, if it all comes down to like one sentence as aCEO for small business, or 50 people company, what does it need to be?

Glenn Gardone (01:18:19.611)

That sentence would probably be something in the effects ofcreate the vision.

Create the message and cultivate the culture. Those are thethree things you have to understand. Because take Red, for instance, and webring folks in here. You know, I get a chance to sit down and I tell them thehistory of Red. I tell them why I'm involved in Red. Because again, there'snobody here who knows it better than me because I live it every single day. Soif you're not involved, if you're not creating that mission, if you're notunderstanding that vision, if you're not cultivating the

You know, if you're just sitting behind a door and nobodycan see you for six, seven hours, stay home. Because you're better off stayinghome and people looking at you as an absent CEO than a CEO with a closed doorwho doesn't seem to care.

Mudassir (01:19:07.886)

Do you think it's harder to cultivate a culture in a remoteorganization?

Glenn Gardone (01:19:14.063)

Do I? No, no, I don't. I think I think a culture a cultureis like a tree You know if you if you give it enough water enough nutrients andenough sun I don't care if you've got six people or six thousand people I thinkthat you can create the culture you want to create and you can The problem isif you've got and you know by creating the culture and if the culture doesn'tseem to be able to you know Move within the organization and you need tounderstand where that

where that toxicity is and where that the stuckness is, soto speak, so that way you can clear it.

Mudassir (01:19:54.318)

Speaking of the same thing, how important do you think iswork-life balance for your employees? Because, you know, as a founder, so whatI believe in as a founder, because it's your baby, it's your company, it makesall the sense in the world to spend, I don't know, 12 hours a day or somethinglike that. Like for example, this particular podcast thing. So, I like thisthing so much. I love this thing. So it doesn't feel like a grind that I'mputting 13 hours a day worth of work every day.

So we're doing blogs, we're doing newsletter, we're doing thesepodcasts. We're across all the socials. And we're doing a million other thingsat the same time. It doesn't feel like a grind. But for an employee, you cannotexpect the same level of commitment, same level of desire, fire from them. Soas an employer, what do you think about work-life balance of your employees?What do you think about that?

Glenn Gardone (01:20:46.767)

Mm-hmm. I want to make sure that they're satisfied from awork-life balance, but I also need this to be satisfied too. And what I mean bythat is I need to be satisfied with their role within the organization and howthey're affecting, whether it be my top line or my bottom line. What is theirrole in the organization and how are they affecting it? Because I tell people,you know, my team all the time and they know it. You know.

you affect my top line and you affect my bottom line, nomatter what role you have in the organization. Sales, marketing, finance,because there may be always a way to be able to negotiate a better price onsomething or save a few dollars on something. And there's always a way to helpus sell more product. You know what I mean? By helping us with the messaging,things like that. So I think work-life balance is extremely important. And youknow, otherwise it's burnout and that's the last thing you want. I find formyself, and again, it works for me,

have conversations with people. I am definitely the personthat walks into somebody's office and says, hey, how's everything going? Andthen I need to know about what's up, how can I help? What is it you need fromme? And I'll hear everything from, hey man, I need another monitor because I'mtrying to do this to, you know what, I'm having a problem with the family rightnow, man, and I really need Friday off. Take it. Take Friday and Monday off.You know what I mean? Take care of the family. To me, life in general, and thisis business, professional, everything, is like a car engine.

All right, you've got your three flywheels, so to speak. Soyou've got your finance, you've got your love, and you've got your health.Think of it as your three flywheels. And then you've got the band that goesaround it. And when all three of these are going in the right speed at theright time, the engine works. But if one of them gets a frozen bearing, itstops the whole engine from working. So God forbid something wrong with health,your engine's got a problem. Something wrong with finances,

You know, I mean so you get what I'm saying. So Part of myjob is making sure that people you know, there are life's engines Again, theyhave to take their own responsibility. But if I can help in some small way aspart of my role, too

Mudassir (01:22:57.456)

Okay, you're super proud of the team that you built. It'svery evident. What if they leave?

Glenn Gardone (01:23:04.647)

You know what, if they left, if my people walked in tomorrowand said, Hey, I got a better opportunity. I give them a hug and I'd say, man,God bless. If you need anything, you let me know. And I appreciate everythingyou do, but if you think there's a better opportunity for you and you. I had aperson that actually, this was quite a few years ago at another company and hehad been with me for over a decade and he was, you know, he ran one of my salesorganizations and he was.

Well compensated, we were friendly. You know, I mean, itwas, when I say friendly, we hung out after work, you know, we'd have dinner,we'd talk, you know, things like that. We were friends. And one day he cameinto the office, he said, hey, look, I got some bad news. I said, my firstthought was, something's wrong with the health of the family. I said, what'sgoing on, what's the matter? I got this opportunity, I'm like, well, tell meabout it. And he said, look, I got an opportunity to run my own organization. Iwas like, brother, high five, good for you. He was like, really? I'm like, hey,if I can help in any way, let me know.

I said, is it a competitor? He's like, no, it's not acompetitor. I'm like, all right, I just ask him. But you know what? We've allbeen there. You know, when I left, you know, corporate America, it's funny, youknow, I had a lot of friends in my last corporate role, a lot of friends. Andit's funny because the people that I thought would be giving me a pat on theback and high fiving me and saying, congratulations, good luck, go for it. Theywere the ones that were bad mouthed me. And oh, how dare you? And oh, you'regonna fail. And the people that, you know, I would figure, you know, theywouldn't care. They're like...

Hey, great for you. You know, if you need somebody, I'm yourguy or I'm your gal or I can do this." And so, you know, it's funny becausewhat my thought was wasn't what in all actuality happened. And that's why Istopped worrying about what other people think.

Mudassir (01:24:43.198)

Yeah, it's more about their own personal insecurities.People are so afraid. So here's the thing around insecurities. If I were totell you, if I were to work with you and I tell you, hey, Glenn, I'm juststarting something of my own. Maybe let's pick this podcast thing. I'm startingmy own podcast, and you're not excited about that. And I'm asking you to.

Glenn Gardone (01:24:49.433)

Yeah.

Mudassir (01:25:09.826)

to come on my podcast because it's gonna be fun, becauseyou're my friend, you're the boss, I consider you in a highest esteem orsomething like that, and you're not happy about it, that's a writing on thewall. Should be able to read that. I should be smart enough to read that, likeokay, that's the type of people I should never work with. It's just like outthere. Because people are insecure in their own wrong way, they're like, wejust don't wanna see anybody getting successful or something like that, right?It's just like that.

Glenn Gardone (01:25:39.723)

I myself I like to surround myself by people that have apositive thought on life And are they walk around 24 7 smiling? No But themajority of time they aren't they always have a positive word because you knowwhat there's enough negativity in this world, brother And I surely don't needit at my dining room table So, you know I am all about you know helping peopleand doing the best I can for people I tell people all the time You know, yeah,there's only one Glen Garon in the entire space of America

Mudassir (01:25:45.473)

Yeah.

Glenn Gardone (01:26:07.803)

So it's pretty easy to find me on LinkedIn. You know what Imean? It's not like, you know, a tough name. And so I have people reach out tome at times, say, hey, can I get five minutes with you? And I'm like, you knowwhat? I give you five on a Saturday, man. I'm working or whatever. I'll talk tosomebody for five minutes on a Saturday while I'm drinking a coffee just tohelp them out. And like, hey, I'm thinking about this. All right, well, I thinkabout these three things. Because if I can help them in some small way, whywouldn't I want to do it? Why wouldn't I want to do it? People were there forme. Why wouldn't I want to be there for other people?

Mudassir (01:26:30.391)

Yeah.

Mudassir (01:26:35.033)

Yeah. Do you think some people are better off as an employeerather than becoming an entrepreneur?

Glenn Gardone (01:26:44.519)

From a personality standpoint, absolutely. Unless you couldchange your personality. And there are some people that can't change yourpersonality, don't want to change your personality, because I will tell youright now, being the boss or being the entrepreneur, it's tough, because if itwas easy, everybody would be doing it. That's what I tell people all the time,you know? And so as long as you have the intestinal fortitude,

to be able to take a lot of bad days along with a lot ofgood days. And you know, it could be one day is ultimate high and an ultimatelow. You know, you could start off with, you know, getting hit at the knees andby the end of the day, you feel like you're on the backs of, you know, 30people cheering yourself down, you know, down the runway. So, you know, as longas you can, you can deal with the highs and the lows, you can deal with thosethings. I say have at it, have fun and try it.

If it's like, man, I just, I just want to get in. I justwant to turn on the computer. I want to do my eight hours. I want to close mycomputer. I don't have to have email on my phone. You know, my, my boys grew upknowing that, hey, dad's got to do a quick 30. You know what I mean? And we'dhave dinner and I'd grab my phone. I'd go through 30. It was as far back as Ican remember. I always check my emails before I go to bed, especially runningan international company. Because, you know, when I'm asleep, people are awake.And when I'm awake, people are asleep.

So you just do it, go through it a half an hour, and that'sa way for me to get a good night's sleep. Other people say, oh my God, no, sixo'clock, I'm gonna turn off my email. Well, all right, God bless, man. Thatain't me.

Mudassir (01:28:20.906)

Are you happy with all the things that you have achieved inlife and all that you've been through?

Glenn Gardone (01:28:27.96)

I'm happy with my continuing journey. I guess is the bestway to put it. I'm not done and I still think there's some great things that Iwant to accomplish but I Don't know I don't know if I'm satisfied I'm happywith it I'm surprised because I never thought I'd be as successful as I've beenMaybe I didn't have enough faith in me or I had too much fear in me, but youknow

back in the day worrying about, am I gonna have enough moneyto grab lunch or dinner? That resonated for a lot of years when they didn'thave to. But that's a therapy session for a whole different podcast. But I'mhappy with where my journey's been so far, but I got a lot more I wannaaccomplish. And I hope when the time comes, I look back and I'm 100% satisfied.Right now, there are parts of my life that I am fully satisfied.

Mudassir (01:29:25.698)

That's a great feeling to have. Any note to your youngerself, 20-year-old Glenn starting out in college, any note to that particularperson.

Glenn Gardone (01:29:37.907)

Trust in yourself, you're gonna do okay.

Mudassir (01:29:42.398)

I think that's a no to every 20 years old out there, likeeverybody. That's the reality of it, right?

Glenn Gardone (01:29:49.009)

Oh and by the way your lotto numbers for July 14th Are XYZso that's why what I would want to do it too and don't go blow in the moneyThat would be the final thing because knowing me at 20. I'd have blown the sixmillion dollars

Mudassir (01:29:57.569)

Okay.

Mudassir (01:30:03.774)

Yeah, okay. All right, Glenn, it's been a pleasure to haveyou. We have this ritual on the podcast, and what we do is we ask every guest aquestion for our next guest, so we can ask you the same question, and we have aquestion for you. And they don't know who the next guest is gonna be, and wedon't make it a part of the recording, so it's just like coming live for thevery first time. It's not as bad as you think it is, so yeah. The question thelast guest left for you is, what's the one habit...

or belief you think that's holding you right now. Holdingyou back right now.

Glenn Gardone (01:30:37.723)

that's holding me back.

Mudassir (01:30:39.67)

Mm-hmm.

Glenn Gardone (01:30:42.835)

Probably the one belief that's holding me back is...

Glenn Gardone (01:30:50.727)

Making sure the growth because we've been on such a meteoricrise here at red because of our success I always get nervous that it becomes

too fast, too quick, and not sustainable. So, I like mycharts to be this way, not be like a heartbeat. So, I probably throttle back attimes, and I tell folks, look, let's, instead of doing this, let's do this, andinstead of it being done in two months, let's get it done in four, but thegrowth will be this way. And I think that's probably one of the beliefs that Ishould just say, you know what?

Let's put a saddle on this sucker and see where it goes, butthat's never been me.

Mudassir (01:31:34.47)

Yeah, it's just a style. Do you think that you guys areliving in a bubble? Do you have that feeling sometimes?

Glenn Gardone (01:31:41.127)

Do I feel like I'm living in a bubble? No, sometimes I feellike I'm, I think that I'm living naked. And what I mean by that is there's noarmor. So anything can pierce the skin in a figurative sense. So, you know,sometimes I say, and that means that I'm not as prepared for a situation as I'dlike to be. You know, I think back in the pandemic, you know.

Mudassir (01:31:43.478)

with a success, especially.

Glenn Gardone (01:32:07.127)

There was nothing that could have prepared me for that, even30 years of work experience, because I'd never been in that. But, you know, asa leader, it is my responsibility to make sure that, you know, we could getthrough it and get to the other side. And so there was a lot of, you know,learning on the fly, so to speak, and ensuring that we can satisfy the needs ofour partners, but ultimately satisfying the needs of all my employees, becausethey look to me for leadership. Glenn, what are we going to do? How are wegoing to do it? What's the future look like for us?

Mudassir (01:32:56.366)

Okay, that's a good one. All right, okay, perfect. Allright, Glenn, thank you so much for the time. Appreciate it, and enjoy the restof the day.

Glenn Gardone (01:33:06.683)

Thank you, thank you everything, appreciate it.

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