Hiring the Right Person Matters the Most

00:00:14:00 – 00:00:16:11

Mudassir
Hey, Artemis, welcome to the show. How you doing today?

00:00:16:14 – 00:00:20:24

Artemis
Hi. Thank you for having me. I’m well, thank you. How are you?

00:00:20:27 – 00:00:23:26

Mudassir
Amazing. Which part of the world you are from today?

00:00:23:29 – 00:00:30:26

Artemis
I am in London. And actually, it’s quite nice today. No rain. So good here. How about you?

00:00:30:28 – 00:00:46:19

Mudassir
Yeah. No, the weather is pretty nice here as well, usually. But, you know, when I met Londoners or something like that, they always complain about the weather. But people who haven’t been to London before, always love the weather, the rain, and stuff like that. Why is that so?

00:00:46:21 – 00:01:14:24

Artemis
Um, I guess because when you are here all the time, it kind of gets sometimes a little bit tiring. But it is beautiful and it just the showers kind of randomly are a bit annoying because you can be out and get soaked. But I’m not so bothered. I mean, I’m originally from Greece, and the weather is incredible. So yeah, I have to say it’s my favorite, but it’s not as bad as Manchester or other places, which is raining all the time.

00:01:14:28 – 00:01:20:18

Mudassir
Yeah. When you come to London, like how old were you when you come to London?

00:01:20:21 – 00:01:37:22
Artemis

I moved here when I was 18, so I came to study architecture early on and I’ve been here since then. I moved around a little bit. But yeah, I love it. I always loved it. And I think it’s kind of my city.

00:01:37:24 – 00:01:54:05
Mudassir

So good to hear. So, I hate to start with I want to ask you, what do you do? Actually, you know, because we were like doing a whole lot of research. So, yeah. Let’s start with why do you do whatever you’re doing and what exactly is that you’re doing?

00:01:54:08 – 00:02:28:15
Artemis

Okay, so I run a couple of businesses and one of them is make and is a textile digital printing company, which is based in London. And what we do is we print on fabric for fashion and interiors and all sorts of things. And I also run another business called Make Academy, which is based on helping designers and LED and design led businesses actually grow their business and make profit be visible and so on.

00:02:28:23 – 00:02:58:04

Artemis
So, I like what I do exactly. I do a lot of things. We also have sub brands and things like that, but effectively I would say I’m into entrepreneur and my mission is to help designers become successful in every way we can, either through supplying fabric or through teaching them how to increase their revenue effectively.

00:02:58:06 – 00:03:12:06

Mudassir
Okay. What exactly the design led, because, you know, I’m from product world, so a lot of the time, a lot of the times we talk about sales led growth and then we talk about product led. So, what exactly that design led.

00:03:12:09 – 00:03:43:16

Artemis
So, what I call design LED is more businesses who have creative founders. So, people who have a creative background, they might be designers that can be fashion designers, pattern designers, people who make things, you know, they’re really involved in the kind of creative side of making things and I think this is important because a lot of people actually have told me that the book has helped them, even though their business is completely different from a design led business.

00:03:43:16 – 00:04:08:20

Artemis
So that could be, you know, doctors or doing different type of things. But the point is that when you have a business and you’re creative as a person, there’s some different issues and some different pain points that other entrepreneurs might not face. So, you want to have your creative side and you want to make your new collection and you want this design time to design.

00:04:08:20 – 00:04:32:25

Artemis
And you said about product development, and that’s also another thing. So, if you love designing or developing products and you founded a company, then you might find that you don’t have enough time to dedicate on that and you end up being kind of sucked into a world of business that has to do with, you know, accounting and marketing and this and that that might not interest you at all.

00:04:32:28 – 00:04:46:01

Artemis
So, I focus on sort of the founder’s interest on having a creative time and creative, you know, satisfaction out of their work.

00:04:46:04 – 00:04:59:15

Mudassir
Okay. So, so creativity and business, these are like two and you know, two different in a spectrum or whatever you want to call that. Well, so how do you. Yeah.

00:04:59:18 – 00:05:23:23

Artemis
Well, no, not really. I think creativity and business go hand in hand, but I think some founders are a lot more creative kind of minded or interested in the creative side of it, a lot more. So, you know, we have founders that or businessmen that actually wouldn’t want to go and design or they don’t have the talent or the interests out.

00:05:24:00 – 00:05:56:11

Artemis
And you could have fashion designers who maybe don’t even know how to hold the pencil, and they just have the vision for the brands and the vision to choose from other things. So, it really you know, it really depends on the personality and who is starting the business. And I think for especially for Maker Academy, when we say design led businesses is because we’re identifying a problem of students and design students, you know, fashion designers, interior designers who are lacking sort of fundamental style business skills.

00:05:56:11 – 00:06:10:12

Artemis
And when you come out of business school, you have all of this business skills or you might have some of them, but you know, you’re not necessarily a creative person who go and design a product yourself.

00:06:10:15 – 00:06:32:26

Mudassir
Yeah. So, what I was, you know, thinking about or what I used to think about creativity or designing compared to running in a business is one of them is very abstract. A You need to have that creative juices flowing through your mind or whatever. So, you need to have a creative side. And the other one is that you need to get very structured, you need to get very organized because that’s how you run a business, right?

00:06:32:29 – 00:06:49:16

Mudassir
So, do you think people who have good business background, good business acumen, they tend to become good designers as well? Or do you think people who are good designers, they can become a good business manager?

00:06:49:18 – 00:07:25:02

Artemis
I think it goes both ways. So, you know, when you are a creative, you, you have things like problem solving skills, self-self-expression. You learn how to do adaptability, flexibility, you learn about failure and risk taking, and you also get resilience and not all creative efforts are successful and failure is always part of the way. And that’s all those skills and a lot more are some of the skills that a business person would have as well or should have.

00:07:25:02 – 00:07:51:22

Artemis
So, there are skills that overlap. I don’t think it goes as black and white as to say that if you are a good creative, you will be a good businessman. And if you are a good businessman, you can be a good creative. I think, you know, it also comes from what you truly want to do. I have creatives in my course where they’re amazing businesspeople, and I think to be to entrepreneur, there are some skills that some people have and some don’t.

00:07:51:25 – 00:08:12:01

Artemis
But I think a lot of them can be taught to an extent. And I think creativity is something that you learn early on, and the more you develop it, the better it is. So, if you are a very good businessman, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you can just jump in and be an amazing creative. But that doesn’t mean that some people aren’t as well.

00:08:12:04 – 00:08:19:18

Mudassir
Okay. Do you think creative creativity is more of an innate ability or is that something you can also learn as well?

00:08:19:20 – 00:08:46:13

Artemis
I think you can learn it. And I think this is why, you know, everybody kind of early years, you push children to express themselves going to arts, develop different skills and try to express themselves as much as possible, I think is the key because creativity really kind of flourishes when people are who they are and they experiment with different things.

00:08:46:13 – 00:09:06:19

Artemis
And I know that now with the I, I, everybody is a bit scared that creativity is just going to disappear. But actually, the I the one thing that they cannot do is a critical thinking. And although it can allow us for a lot of alternatives and you can put a design and it can give you a lot of options, it will expand.

00:09:06:21 – 00:09:13:21

Artemis
I believe the creativity of people in the way they view things rather than just completely overshadow it or take over.

00:09:13:23 – 00:09:34:00

Mudassir
Yeah. So, speaking of I, I talked to a lot of designers. Some of them actually think that so air is like giving them superhuman abilities or something like that, and they can come up with designs faster, make them more efficient or something like that. Others are like the petrified terrified about if it is going to air, is going to suck a job or something like that

00:09:34:03 – 00:09:43:16

Mudassir
So, I wish I had this idea on. Do you think AI is because it’s here to stay? Like somebody can believe it or somebody cannot, but it’s hard to say.

00:09:43:18 – 00:10:05:06

Artemis
Yeah. So, through the whole industrial sort of history, you have originally was started with jobs and machinery came, everybody panicked and oh my gosh, it’s going to take all the jobs. And we can see slowly that people are adopting and everybody is adopting in the industry. And it does create yes, of course, some people will lose jobs, but it does create other opportunities.

00:10:05:08 – 00:10:25:21

Artemis
And with the AI, there is no exception. We are going to see a lot of movement and we’re going to see a lot of opportunities rising. I don’t think anybody should be petrified. I think is giving a lot of chances and a lot of opportunities for better and safer design, especially when it comes to structural elements and things like that.

00:10:25:21 – 00:10:48:18

Artemis
So, it’s not just about making things prettier, is going to start, you know, getting into the proper structure. I mean, something as simple as a bike. So, you import all your data and you say, okay, I want this product to look a bit like this, a bit like that. And then it gives you, let’s say, ten options of a structural stable design with the list material possible.

00:10:48:22 – 00:11:26:14

Artemis
And then that will give your ideas. It’s not going to ever give you the exact answer or I think people or designers especially shouldn’t take it as an answer. And we have seen this also with all the charts and the copyright. Yes, it does answer and it does give you a specific result. But unless you have the critical thinking to read it and take what is needed from it, then you’re just having hypothetical answers with, you know, but buy things that you’re not even sure if are real or We have seen the AI actually making up answers and stories that actually are not true.

00:11:26:14 – 00:11:52:09

Artemis
And the data does not respond to what it says it does. So, I would use it with caution for now. And for designers especially, I wouldn’t use it as a tool to kind of speed up processes and create endless amount of works, because in the end of the day, being creative is also having this kind of understanding of what you’re creating, how the mission, the kind of background story.

00:11:52:15 – 00:12:03:27

Artemis
It’s not just about pretty pictures and pretty lines, or it could be sometimes, but I think there’s a lot more into it that I wouldn’t necessarily replace.

00:12:03:29 – 00:12:23:19

Mudassir
Yeah, I totally agree to that. I personally think that AI is going to give like abilities help, you know, exact like machines help you do the things faster and make you efficient and stuff like that. And exactly, you know, when the machine came in that industrial that I started, a lot of people actually, you know, lost their jobs, but a lot of people actually got new jobs.

00:12:23:25 – 00:12:57:07

Mudassir
And then the whole spectrum of these engineering things and stuff like that that came into existence. Yeah, that’s very helpful, I think. Ani do you think maybe we should have structured like the I think at the end is the end of the podcast. But yeah, just, you know, coming up, coming to talk my mind. Do you think there’s a risk that now that A.I. is coming up with the stories and, you know, kitting it or creating its own facts and figure and stuff like that, even if the prompt is right?

00:12:57:09 – 00:13:03:26

Mudassir
Yeah, I can create stuff from its own. Do you think that that can get dangerous down the line? Maybe today?

00:13:03:28 – 00:13:33:24

Artemis
Yeah. I’ve actually joined quite a few webinars on the topic and some of the advice I’ve heard from experts who have been working with the AI, the last 20 or 30 years and so on, where that’s there’s no way they can take sort of a life on its own and they’re reassuring that it’s very safe. My personal opinion is that the same way with any dangerous kind of tool, it’s not the tool itself that is dangerous is the people behind it.

00:13:34:01 – 00:13:59:09

Artemis
So, if you’re not using something right, it will be the people who will do something wrong. It won’t be the AI in itself. And also, from what I understand, the algorithm is so complex that no one person could potentially sabotage or cause such a catastrophic issue. Yes, you can see now on, you know, we have data being stolen and there’s all the security breaches in the Internet.

00:13:59:15 – 00:14:26:06

Artemis
I’m sure there will be some issues down the line. But, you know, entering the AI and making all the Tesla cars crash and things like that, I understood from my understanding is something that is quite impossible. Well, hopefully, but it’s something that is so complex that, you know, somebody so sophisticated would have you would imagine that they will, you know, they wouldn’t do something like that.

00:14:26:09 – 00:14:52:06

Artemis
And also, there’s so much security and it’s not kind of one person change. There are multiple steps. You have to go through multiple kind of firewalls and all of these things that, you know, all these companies can hear that everybody is stressed. And I’m sure soon enough they will come out and explain how, you know, what measures they’re taking and how they’re protecting the users.

00:14:52:08 – 00:15:19:01

Artemis
And on that front, I, I was a bit skeptical on using some of the AI tools, especially the ones with replication of voice and things like that, because I would be worried, you know, like now you have your bank where you call and then instead of saying your password, you can use your voice as your password. So, I was a bit skeptical thinking, okay, why would I voluntarily give my voice away to be replicated

00:15:19:01 – 00:15:38:24

Artemis
However, you know, they say it fit and in the end of the day, they do have all of these promises and securities. But yeah, I wasn’t confident enough to go ahead with something like that, but I’m sure in a year or two, five people will just think like you do now with your phone where it’s like, okay, face ID, okay, that’s pretty normal.

00:15:38:27 – 00:15:42:02

Artemis
And people get used to things.

00:15:42:04 – 00:16:05:29

Mudassir
Yeah, yeah, I think so. And it’s going to get sophisticated with like every passing time, every other day it’s going to get sophisticated. And also, I think from security regulation standpoint, it is also going to get better. Okay. Coming back to what we had originally designed for you so I was just looking at the left side, looking at, you know, what you’re doing.

00:16:06:01 – 00:16:31:11

Mudassir
I found like some really, really big name, like really big names that you guys are working with, like Alexander McQueen and you know this and that’s a day or like, whatever. So, so first of all, like, amazing stuff. Amazing job. What is it like working with all these big brands like Behind the Scene things and which part of their supply chain do you actually fit in?

00:16:31:14 – 00:16:53:19

Artemis
Well, yeah, I can reveal too much about what exactly would do with them because we have a lot of paperwork, you know, and, you know, favors. We sign them things. But okay, so working with big brands is a little bit like were you a small run was really know what you expect to hear so often the teams rely on us as much as individual makers.

00:16:53:19 – 00:17:27:14

Artemis
And you know, we simply lean or experience to help them and we give the best advice we can whenever it’s needed. They come to us wanting something very specific. Usually, we have done I think it was Beyonce’s dress for one of the concerts. And, you know, they call they want something, you know, very special specific fabric. So, there’s a lot of kind of communication and a lot of hours spent between our team and some members of their team to try to figure out the best way to produce things.

00:17:27:17 – 00:17:55:09
Artemis

And one thing that I would say is that, you know, we produce a lot of their fashion shows and things like that, and their main productions are often made, unfortunately not in England quite often. But you know, working with people like that gives you a lot of opportunities to go to the fashion shows. And, you know, getting flowers from big names with specific signatures is always really rewarding.

00:17:55:11 – 00:18:20:18
Artemis

And, you know, there’s a kind of sense of achievement when we get something done and people are very pleased with small or big brands. But I guess with the bigger brands, it’s just that the stakes are a lot higher. They can be no mistakes. So, in the background our team is quite stressed and there’s, you know, if there’s quality control, it will be done multiple times.

00:18:20:21 – 00:18:27:16

Artemis
Everything will be checked, you know, relentlessly and so on.

00:18:27:18 – 00:18:48:13

Mudassir
How long usually you guys take as a supposed there’s a, there’s a met gala or something like that coming up and you guys get one. Yeah. And yeah, that’s good. And you get like one of these big contracts. So, couple of questions on that. Do you get like multiple contracts at the same time that you’re working with that queen at the same time?

00:18:48:13 – 00:18:58:09

Mudassir
They are the same time like you’re whoever you’re working with at the same time, or you just want to get like one and then, hey, we’re just booked, we’re like not taking a new project. So, you take multiples.

00:18:58:09 – 00:19:22:24

Artemis
Absolutely not. We don’t stop. And you know, if we have full capacity, we do put extra hours and we make, you know, we cut the shifts and we, you know, put somebody earlier, somebody later, and we just leave the machines open for longer. We had people we opened the factory sometimes in weekends if it’s needed. We have people calling us in panic that something has gone wrong.

00:19:22:29 – 00:20:03:18

Artemis
We can turn things around within one day. We have turned things around in hours, depending on the needs and what has happened. So, it’s pretty quick really. And I think this is another point on the slow fashion and the digital printing aspect. So, the machinery and the industry has evolved enough to be able to produce things very, very quickly, and that allows people to not hold a lot of stock and effectively not produce so much as it happens, usually with the fast fashion where they produce, you know, meters and meters, hundreds and thousands of meters, and then they have all this stock that they need to get rid of.

00:20:03:22 – 00:20:16:09

Artemis
And that’s when you see all the kind of collections going on sale because, you know, they order all these pieces. But actually, that design might not have gone as well as they expected.

00:20:16:11 – 00:20:37:06

Mudassir
I think I think of that as like a different sales model. So that’s my take on that difference is it’s like, you know, somebody printing in bulk and then obviously they obviously have higher profit margins, they sell it and then they could, you know, just to get rid of that, they can put it on sale compared to these fashion brands, you know, especially celebrity brands.

00:20:37:06 – 00:21:01:06

Mudassir
So, they’re just like, now are we just going to make like one thing? It’s going to be tailored. It’s going to be tailored for Beyoncé. We’re going to charge like probably 100,000 times more or something like that compared to any other, you know, regular brand. And they can they can kind of control that. So, for me, I think it’s more of a different business model, like somebody is producing in bulk, somebody is producing, you know, only for specific niches, I think.

00:21:01:08 – 00:21:26:24

Artemis
Yeah, I don’t think it’s about a strict because we have a lot of small designers who also produce kind of on demand and their prices are reasonable and they’re very, you know, competitive in the market. I think you were talking more about maybe people who produce sort of in China or they produce a lot more. Yeah, that’s that is a bit different.

00:21:26:24 – 00:22:08:22

Artemis
You’re right. And so, I think we don’t really deal with that kind of thing because even though we print, you know, thousands of meters, sometimes for clients, we cannot match the prices of China, which is, you know, sometimes. Okay, let me say that again. It’s not that we cannot match them, but what happens is that is a different type of business, as you mentioned, but also the quality, the mission and what these brands are trying to achieve as a are a little bit different for what we look into our customers.

00:22:08:24 – 00:22:33:20

Artemis
So, a lot of our customers are working for very specific goals and they’re also a little bit aware of sustainability. And this is where my academy comes in as well. So, we always encourage our, you know, our brands to be conscious of sustainability. And I think these brands are a lot more in the heart of, you know, made in UK or made local.

00:22:33:27 – 00:22:51:14

Artemis
And there’s a whole different kind of approach into the market is not exactly the off the shelf less you know sell thousands of T-shirts and that’s it They prefer to sell a little bit. But you know for a purpose or for a mission.

00:22:51:17 – 00:23:11:04

Mudassir

So, to me, it kind of looks like, you know, like these are two different business models, right? So, there’s one was doing both production and Bible production means they like that. The business model, they have higher profit margin. They get benefited if they produce in bulk. And then once you know, their margin hurts, they can, you know, put it on sale.

00:23:11:06 – 00:23:29:00

Mudassir

They make some more money on top of that. And I think a lot of people are doing that compared to these designer brands. So, they’re just like, you know, we’re going to produce like one particular dress or something. Like you mentioned something for Beyoncé and it’s like one because it’s probably going to be like a single appearance and then it’s done.

00:23:29:03 – 00:23:50:02

Mudassir

It’s not going to go on sale or like whatever, but they can charge a lot more money on top of that. So, it’s just like to me it looks like this is just like a different business model. But speaking of that, what exactly happened? You know, once the celebrity like that, they had to appear on the show, they had a single dress.

00:23:50:02 – 00:23:59:02

Mudassir

Like what exactly happened after that? They did that dress go because nobody can wear it again. They cannot wear it again. So, what exactly happened to them?

00:23:59:04 – 00:24:36:12

Artemis

Yeah, I don’t really know what happens to all these dresses. I assume they keep them sometimes, depending on what is it used for. It could be exhibited, but a lot of the fashion brands obviously are, you know, they produce for the catwalks because they want to promote their next collection and using some of them in the market. You see some of them being sold to celebrities or higher for higher budget kind of clothing and yeah, I think once we produce this out of our hands, really, we don’t we don’t follow up too much on that.

00:24:36:14 – 00:24:52:27

Mudassir

Yeah. How big of a team do you have? And especially, you know, the industry thing because what you do actually the printing and all that stuff like the manufacturing stuff, is that something you guys own? Was there something that you guys, you know, kind of outsource? So how exactly does that work?

00:24:53:00 – 00:24:56:15

Artemis

Sorry if we outsource the printing, you mean?

00:24:56:17 – 00:24:58:08

Mudassir

Yeah, the manufacturing and the printing.

00:24:58:10 – 00:25:21:02

Artemis

No, absolutely not. We have a team in London, we have a factory in London, and we source everything here. Well, we produce all our fabrics and the digital printing in-house. We do some of our sewing. We have some partners for the sewing, and we try to source locally as much as possible and whatever we can or source here.

00:25:21:02 – 00:26:02:06

Artemis

Of course, we have to source from Europe or other countries, but we have a team about 15 people now and so we have the machinery all in place. So yeah, it’s a proper factory. Everything is here. And I think one of the reasons we chose London was because my business partner used to work in Manchester in a different factory and, you know, we had a lot of designers coming and saying, oh, you know, if you were in London, it would be so much more convenient because taking the train and trying to have this quick turnaround was becoming more and more difficult.

00:26:02:08 – 00:26:12:26

Artemis

So, the decision was, okay, let’s go and open one in London and see what happens. And yeah, and the rest is history.

00:26:12:28 – 00:26:36:00

Mudassir

Well, okay, coming back to design actually, especially because having a team at all that you wrote a book, that’s where the conversation started, right? So, tell us a little bit about design and grow. And I’m going to talk to you about the strongest method that you introduced in that. But what exactly is the book? How did you get inspired to write a book or something?

00:26:38:04 – 00:27:00:19

Artemis

So, the method was born from years of experience and problems that we have solved along the way, which effectively cost us thousands of pounds and all the problems that we saw from our designer as well that we’re facing. What were the struggles? So, you have many wonderful and respected and to entrepreneur is out there talking about their methods and how to run a business.

00:27:00:21 – 00:27:30:19

Artemis

But what is different about design and grow is that it really focuses in the heart of for creatives. And, you know, it shows the founders and how to grow their business. Looking at six main areas and as I mentioned earlier, a lot of creatives don’t have the business background and these fundamentals are essential. So, storm stands for systems and then with our systems, you cannot run your business.

00:27:30:19 – 00:27:51:00

Artemis

So, we have a very strong kind of starting point and saying, look, we need to get your systems in order and then moving on to their team. So, team for me is extremely important and I know a lot of people out there say, oh no, you know, this order is not quite right. Well, this is right for us.

00:27:51:00 – 00:28:16:00

Artemis

And it has worked for many of our businesses and many of the brands we work with. So, we have the teams and how you build a team. We help people understand how to hire and what is the difference between hiring well and hiring. You know, whoever comes through the door and then training them, etc. So, then you have operations and operations.

00:28:16:00 – 00:28:36:28

Artemis

Of course, we run our own factory. We know exactly how to run businesses. We have several businesses. And then we have taking all this experience and saying, okay, these are the kind of steps you should take in your operations and then we talk about automation and things like that, and then we have reaction, which is actually all about mindset.

00:28:36:28 – 00:29:07:29

Artemis

And you know, for a strongly leader, you need a strong mindset. And we make sure that all of these creatives are confident and they are very sort of understanding, well, what’s needed from them, and a lot of them are kind of burnt out. So, this mindset kind of recharges them and we have a perfect result moving forward. So, marketing and for me, marketing is one of the things that I do a lot.

00:29:08:02 – 00:29:29:27

Artemis

And with our marketing, as you know very well, there’s not there’s not business. And a lot of them usually say, oh, but you know, I’m a creative, I want to be doing marketing. This is too boring and hiring the right team for them and understanding what are the main things they should be looking at, teaching them how to read the data and which areas to focus on.

00:29:30:01 – 00:30:00:01

Artemis

And especially creating a marketing strategy is one of the key things that we work with. And all of this is actually in the book. And then after that we have sustainability. And for me it was very important to include that in my methodology because we have a very strong footing on that. And although we don’t expect everybody to be 100% sustainable, we want to see at least an effort and people will try to achieve something with that.

00:30:00:03 – 00:30:27:11

Artemis

And a lot of our brands have their mission to become more sustainable using the right products and using the right way. And that also helps them a lot with their marketing because nowadays people want to become more sustainable. And going back to the bulk, I think there’s a difference between the model because the designers we work with have a lot of background.

00:30:27:11 – 00:30:48:28

Artemis

They want to put their story in it. They care more about their product being viewed in a specific way. They don’t care only about the sales they want to show that they represent something and they represent their story and be truthful and kind of loyal to that.

00:30:49:00 – 00:30:52:13

Mudassir

Okay, who should read this book? Like what’s the audience for that

00:30:52:18 – 00:30:55:11

Artemis

Everyone, I.

00:30:55:11 – 00:30:58:13

Mudassir

Think anybody, anybody in the design industry or anyone.

00:30:58:13 – 00:31:21:27

Artemis

Yeah. So, anybody who is a fashion designer, anybody who is an interior, anybody who works with fabric, it’s a 100% written for them. Anybody who has a product that has fabric, as I mentioned, I have found that a lot of different audiences have found value in it. So potentially there’s only two chapters that are 100% dedicated to fabric and sustainability.

00:31:21:27 – 00:31:44:21

Artemis

So, I talk a lot about certification. I talk about the processes of digital printing, how screen printing has changed, and what are the benefits really to your business or your environment or your market. And that part might not be interesting. Interesting for somebody who is running a different type of business, but up to that point, everything is the same.

00:31:44:21 – 00:32:16:01

Artemis

You know, the marketing, the teams and the systems. I’m a business is a business after all. And the idea is that, okay, if I free your time to do creative things, that’s great. But if you for your time to do whatever else you wanted, you know, that’s okay too. So effectively, yeah, number one would be all kind of design led businesses and to any creative person that wants to grow their business.

00:32:16:04 – 00:32:37:26

Mudassir

Okay, you mentioned a couple of things in that strong method that I think is going to be helpful for almost everybody about building teams. And then in particularly who try who not quite so most of my time, you know, I work with startups and there’s been like a like a that’s a pain in the ass, honestly.

00:32:37:26 – 00:32:39:02

Artemis

So, I know.

00:32:39:04 – 00:32:56:20

Mudassir

You hire somebody and then you have you can hire a hotshot person or whoever, and then you have like some big high hopes for them. Like they can do some amazing things two months down the road. You just, like, hate this person to be here because they’re so slow. They don’t. Okay. Then you go out, you find somebody else and they’re like, amazing, fantastic.

00:32:56:20 – 00:33:07:29

Mudassir

They get the job done pretty quickly. And then I would just like not act in their work. So how do they actually help people hire the right talent for them? Like, how do you do that?

00:33:08:04 – 00:33:08:20

Artemis

Yeah

00:33:08:22 – 00:33:12:19

Mudassir

Your methodology when it comes to hiring, right

00:33:12:19 – 00:33:38:29

Artemis

So, first of all, one thing I guess I missed out was that the book is targeted for people who have a team of 3 to 12, maximum 15 people. So, I purposely excluded startups because this methodology is not really useful for somebody who has just about started. It could be useful to read the book to see what’s coming and be really well-prepared.

00:33:39:01 – 00:34:16:21

Artemis

But because it’s an action-based book, so there’s worksheets in there and it’s a kind of I walk you through what you should be doing and it wouldn’t be useful for somebody who is a one person and doesn’t actually have a team to delegate or, you know, move forward with those. Having said that, for startups especially, I understand your pain because I purposely have excluded them from my accelerators because obviously what I’m teaching is not really for them, but it is always very tricky.

00:34:16:21 – 00:34:45:09

Artemis

And what I found with startups is I was so nervous and they’re investing a lot of money for that one higher and is kind of, you know, a deal breaker for them and putting kind of all your eggs in one basket can be very traumatizing if it goes wrong. So, what are the way we advise or I advise in the especially is that I focus on hiring on attitude.

00:34:45:11 – 00:35:09:10

Artemis

So as your business grows, you will need specialist and all these things. But the most important thing for me is hiring an attitude and making sure that whoever you hire is actually invested in the business and they care about the business. They’re not there just for the paycheck and they are the right people for it. So, we do that through a series of hoops, is what I call it.

00:35:09:17 – 00:35:35:03

Artemis

And we get people to do some tests before you even interview them. You have, you know, videos they have to send you. And then when somebody is committed, you go through all of that, then they’re showing some true interest. Then obviously we have a company value everywhere and we make sure that they align with the company values. We are interested on how long and where what they want to achieve in a personal level.

00:35:35:05 – 00:36:00:20

Artemis

So, their personal goals and kind of understanding where they’re coming from and, you know, making sure that we are also the right fit for them because there’s nothing worse than somebody who you believe is the perfect fit or you hope that they will achieve something great for your business and then actually not also for startups. I would say the first hire I would do is on marketing.

00:36:00:22 – 00:36:33:10

Artemis

You cannot, you know, when you start, you have a lot of people doing multiple jobs and people often are so busy doing everything else, you know, designing, getting the suppliers, you know, getting reliable suppliers is quite difficult. And then you have the market, you have all these different things, you have your e-commerce, you’re selling in multiple sites, and then you’re struggling to keep up and people miss out on the importance of their marketing strategy and they are completely overwhelmed.

00:36:33:10 – 00:36:43:17

Artemis

So, as I said, the first hire I would do would be the right person with the right attitude. Focusing on marketing.

00:36:43:19 – 00:37:09:28

Mudassir

Okay, Yeah, that’s great. I want to ask you a couple of questions on your personal achievement and on your personal journey. So, we’re actually you know, you mentioned you came from Greece, you started architecture, but what actually, you know, inspired you to become a creative entrepreneur? And what challenges did you face along the way early on your journey?

00:37:10:00 – 00:37:38:09

Artemis

So, as you know, I’m from Greece and my parents always encouraged the entrepreneurial journey. And I started architecture. And that also gave me a great language towards creatives and an understanding of what’s going on in the creative industry. And then later on, when I came across an opportunity, I decided to actually follow what I wanted to do and what I loved doing was being creative and solving problems.

00:37:38:16 – 00:38:03:24

Artemis

So that’s how the whole thing started. And some of the challenges were that it was a massive learning curve, and especially around staff and marketing. I had to do a lot things that didn’t really interests me at the time. And as a lot of startups find out, you have to do lots of multiple jobs and you have to learn a lot of things that you might not need later on, but at that time you have to do them.

00:38:03:27 – 00:38:31:01

Artemis

And that was quite challenging for me, especially on things like accounting or other, more technical things on SEO and other areas. So, to learn, to say, to stay true to your own business and your mission and your vision and not to worry about competitors was also another great challenge because, you know, we are human and we all look around and see what everybody else is doing.

00:38:31:07 – 00:38:45:28

Artemis

But I think one thing I would advise everyone would be to kind of stay true to what you believe and what you want to do and kind of, you know, tune down the noise around the markets and what other people are doing.

00:38:46:00 – 00:38:52:07

Mudassir

Okay. Has the experience been overwhelming or underwhelming so far

00:38:52:09 – 00:39:23:03

Artemis

It’s being both. I think in the beginning was a lot more over overwhelming because running such a sort of large leading digital textile printing business had a lot of very large challenges, and that happened especially so. Interestingly, I was at the House of Parliament yesterday and we’re discussing this matter in detail on what is all the issues that have come and the challenges are also within the industry.

00:39:23:09 – 00:39:58:15

Artemis

So, we’re invited as a fashion roundtable with the industry across the fashion industry. And some of the points that we’ve made were that the UK political environment with Brexit has made things very, very difficult, especially for overseas customers. So, we worked a lot previously with Europe and America and we can see that all of these things have shifted and we cannot anymore give our customers what we used to in regards of pricing or timings because of political issues.

00:39:58:17 – 00:40:28:11

Artemis

Then we have a lack of specification and the lack of specific train stuff. So, the people that come out of unit are not really ready to work in factories and in that kind of industry. So, because we need this kind of stuff in the factory and the knowledge has not quite arrived, there, it takes a long time to train people and to find the right people for the job and that’s a great challenge we face daily and also at the beginning.

00:40:28:14 – 00:40:54:20

Artemis

So, the lack of government funding available in London is non-existent. So also, that is something that we have been and it’s causing a lot of problems. And in a more personal level, it’s, you know, it’s tough to build a strong reputation in the industry so getting your foot in the door and getting, you know, a label as a trusted supplier, it takes a lot of time and consistency.

00:40:54:22 – 00:41:19:24

Artemis

We been developing our e-commerce platform and it is a very customized platform. It takes years. It’s not an off the shelf kind of website and it’s taking time and money and, you know, because it’s something that is innovating. And so not many people use it. It has a lot of issues and a lot of technical issues. And on the other hand, lots of rewards.

00:41:19:24 – 00:41:51:04

Artemis

We work with amazing people, designers, thousands of incredibly talented people globally. And, you know, seeing your work in catwalks advanced to world wise is quite rewarding. And being kind of a regular supplier to hundreds, if not thousands of small businesses, you know, from small fashion brands, which are slow fashion to crafts designer makers. That’s also something that I love about our business.

00:41:51:07 – 00:42:15:20

Artemis

So, of course, making our own hours and this is part of being an entrepreneur, I guess, and being your own boss. You know, I can go to my kids theater recitals and all of these things without having to worry that I won’t be allowed. I don’t have to miss a lot of other things or opportunities, which is something I believe is been great throughout the journey

00:42:15:22 – 00:42:34:02

Mudassir

Speaking of Kate, how important do you think or how do you think this entire entrepreneurial journey has help you with being a good mother compared to if you were doing a full-time job? How do you imagine your life with the Kardashians?

00:42:34:05 – 00:43:02:15

Artemis

I don’t think the entrepreneurial journey helps you be a better or worse mother. What I see and I work with a lot of brands, and I have to say that’s probably 90%, if not 85% is women. And a lot of them are mothers. I think what we all kind of value is that it opens a door to showing to the children that women are equally as capable.

00:43:02:17 – 00:43:32:09

Artemis

You also allowed me to understand some very valuable skills and things that I would like to pass on to the kids, like problem solving, self-expression, you know, the adaptability and flexibility, risk taking and resilience and all of these things would have been so evident to me if I wasn’t actually running a business of my own. And I think it’s great to involve them into the journey.

00:43:32:15 – 00:43:53:28

Artemis

We don’t obviously share a lot of the difficulties or the stresses, but we do announce kind of the successes and I think you can see from the next generation that they’re keener and I think is more of a teaching child that then to entrepreneur Journey is an option and they should be risk takers, they should be looking into it.

00:43:54:00 – 00:44:18:01

Artemis

I try very hard to have a balance between work and home, and I think this is one of the things that the book is about, is about getting your creative time back, but also allowing you to work enough, but also spend time with your family. One of the things we work out straight away is being able to take a week off without your business falling apart.

00:44:18:03 – 00:44:40:14

Artemis

And so that is what you would say from a good parent point of view, as a woman or as a man, it would be to kind of spend quality time with your family. And a lot of people who we have worked with had this journey where they’ve been frustrated and they work a lot and they work really late and they don’t actually get that time.

00:44:40:14 – 00:45:02:03

Artemis

And they say, look, I actually became a founder to gain time to be with my family and be my own boss. And actually, I’m drowning and I never have time for any of it. So, you know, it’s really the kind of journey you choose to take and what you learn on the way and how you grow your business that can allow you this freedom or not.

00:45:02:03 – 00:45:26:22

Artemis

And with kids, you know, there’s never a good or a bad time to have children. A lot of people say, Oh, I’m not ready. You know, my business is at the beginning. It’s not going to get any better, is always going to have challenges and I think it’s people who choose to be parents. They can find a balance by, you know, choosing to deal with things in a certain way.

00:45:26:24 – 00:45:40:25

Mudassir

Okay. On a personal level, very personal question. Do you think kids who have entrepreneurial parents tend to grow up smarter compared to other kids?

00:45:40:25 – 00:45:42:21

Artemis

Well

00:45:42:23 – 00:45:43:22

Mudassir

Because I believe.

00:45:43:24 – 00:46:10:27

Artemis

I don’t know about smarter, but they definitely have a much better chance of creating a lot of this skills that we spoke about. And there’s a lot more skills that can be taught. And I think there is actually a lot of view about how to raise interpersonal children and how to make them more resilient. And I think these skills are essential for life.

00:46:10:27 – 00:46:43:24

Artemis

And yes, it would make them better entrepreneurs. It will make them get further in whatever career they actually choose to. So, it’s more about a way of thinking rather than a smarter or less smart. I think it’s more about being more creative on the way they approach things and problems and how they deal with them. And especially one of the main things would hope that all into entrepreneur parents and everybody does is teaching failure and failure can be viewed in many ways.

00:46:43:26 – 00:47:13:00

Artemis

People consider failure losing money in a business, people consider failure, you know, their business going bust. And we have a lot of very successful and big names who have lost money like clothes companies, open companies, and then they go back and forth in this journey. And the success for me is that they keep getting up and the failure would only be somebody who completely gives up and feels completely defeated by whatever has happened.

00:47:13:02 – 00:47:29:26

Artemis

And that’s the only way. So, you know, interpersonal journeys are very bumpy. And so, learning to deal with that is really a skill. And all of these children will go very far if they can really work on that.

00:47:29:29 – 00:47:53:27

Mudassir

Yeah, I speaking of exactly the same topic, I know Daniel has written a book on that Daniel Priestly audience. There’s a book called How to Raise Entrepreneurial Kids. It’s came across a tweet of his. I’m a big fan of his actually, I have one of the first book that I read on business was 24 Assets, and I just love it.

00:47:54:00 – 00:47:58:00

Mudassir

He happened to endorse your book. So, what was that story about?

00:47:58:03 – 00:48:40:06

Artemis

Well, Daniel’s amazing in whatever he does, and he was kind enough to look through the book and writes a beautiful sort of quote for it or a praise for it. And yeah, he you know, he works around entrepreneurialism journey and he works with so many entrepreneurs daily. And I have actually read his books, all of them. And I have read The Amazing Entrepreneurial Children, and it’s more of a collection of different stories of how people are to pronounce or have used different techniques to show kids, you know, all of these skills.

00:48:40:06 – 00:49:06:22

Artemis

And I think one of the things I remember from his book was that I think he was playing with his son and I think the other his other child kicked over the Lego Tower or whatever that was. And then he kind of said to his son, well, the fun is all about building it up again. And I think this is an amazing lesson because teaching children to think like that is something that will really take them far in life.

00:49:06:22 – 00:49:21:10

Artemis

And I truly believe that he truly believes that. He believes in building and creating new things and making an impact. And that is shown throughout his work. And that is truly what the entrepreneur journey is about.

00:49:21:12 – 00:49:29:22

Mudassir

What do you think as the biggest challenges or the biggest opportunities in the fashion and interior design industry today? What’s your take on that?

00:49:29:24 – 00:49:59:03

Artemis

I think there’s plenty of opportunities, but at the same time the market is quite overwhelmed. So, any brand that has a very clear niche and a very clear product or an idea of what they truly want to be doing and who do they want to focus on, they truly have a chance. So, a lot of designers or have brands, they look around, they see what everybody else is doing and they think, okay, I’m just going to put myself out there and is going to happen.

00:49:59:05 – 00:50:31:26

Artemis

Well, it’s not quite so black and white. So, the opportunities are out there for a lot of new designers who want to have a mission. I feel, especially those who are very based on sustainability, there’s been a big increase on, you know, on the growth of those brands and also the print on demand has become a lot more sort of not trending, but people are becoming a lot more aware of all this issues and the sustainable aspect of it.

00:50:32:03 – 00:51:04:13

Artemis

And they’re willing to pay a little bit more to have a better-quality product. We have arrived to a point where the clothes you can buy are very cheap in many cases or in mass production kind of case. And then the quality has dropped so much that you couldn’t really keep it for more than a few years. And this is one of the things that a lot of the brands who focus on quality and detail have a lot more advantages in the market at the moment.

00:51:04:17 – 00:51:26:05

Mudassir

So, one thing I want to know from you is because you’re like somewhat of an insider in the design industry. So, a lot of people, a lot of designers actually start their brand, start their work, some get traction, others don’t get that traction. And I personally feel like art is just art, like design. That’s just design. Just like there’s no objectivity on that

00:51:26:05 – 00:51:39:07

Mudassir

Like, this is a good design. It’s not a good design, but some people do get to, you know, make it big time so people don’t end up doing that. So, is that about not having marketing clarity or what exactly is the reason behind that? So, what do you think?

00:51:39:07 – 00:52:10:09

Artemis

I often talk about this in the marketing perspective. So, first of all, a lot of designers believe that, okay, I’m very talented. I got in a word, I’ve been noticed. And that should make a leader in the industry. And that’s not exactly what happens. And as you said, separating a good design from a not so good design is a little bit difficult because effectively your market is the only judge and you’re trying to please that and the only people you want to please is your niche.

00:52:10:12 – 00:52:29:24

Artemis

And as you said, there’s no marketing clarity in a lot of those designers and they believe that selling to everyone is the answer. So, they look, let’s say Coca-Cola or McQueen, and they say, okay, I’m going to mass market and I’m going to, you know, be here and be there. And the more visible I am, the more people are going to buy from me.

00:52:29:26 – 00:52:53:19

Artemis

And this is exactly the opposite of what happens. So, designers were actually very clear on their needs and their marketing strategy as well as the quality of the product, their mission, their story. They said the ones that do best and they end up growing their business because they have a of clarity of what’s going on in the market as well as who they are trying to sell to.

00:52:53:19 – 00:52:53:26

Artemis

Yeah.

00:52:53:27 – 00:52:59:03

Mudassir

How do you think the digital technology changed the landscape of fashion and design industry or how will it change

00:52:59:03 – 00:53:30:13

Artemis

Well, it has changed a lot, so I could talk about this for days, but some of the key factors are that graphical software’s like Photoshop Illustrator, so this has made designers and creative art work very easy and accessible to the masses. So, it has made things really easy for people who might not have studied it. You can be self-taught, you know, there’s all this YouTube videos and so on also allows for quick manipulation and creation of colorways designs and more.

00:53:30:13 – 00:53:55:19

Artemis

So, you have things like pattern making, you can mirror things. There’s a lot of tricks that can be automated. You don’t have to do it anymore and a lot of people draw your paper first, then they photograph and then they create something else in the software. So, these are digital printing machines also have advanced significantly. So, this removes the blockage to entry

00:53:55:22 – 00:54:23:18

Artemis

That’s screen-printing way. I don’t know if you know anything about screen printing, but they used to be. Well, they still do. They print one colored a time, which is very, very expensive. So, people who wanted to print multiple colors, it will be quite a process. And the setup was quite costly and it still is. And it’s actually not very environmentally friendly.

00:54:23:21 – 00:54:52:28

Artemis

So now there’s no limitation on color, there’s no limitation of scale or quantity, there’s automations, workflow systems, you have e-commerce platforms, and anybody can really just get their brand out there and it’s not as closely as it used to be. And that allows brands to create their own stores, manage, create, you know, they sell globally without that allows for brands to create their own stores.

00:54:52:28 – 00:55:22:18

Artemis

And, you know, they managed and curated without having to deal with any third parties and they can just do it on their own. So, marketplaces that sell your goods such as Etsy, Amazon, they’re also avenues for designers to be visible. And even though I don’t advocate for my designers to use, you know, third parties to sell their own designs, we are much more encouraging them to have their own e-commerce.

00:55:22:21 – 00:55:49:23

Artemis

These platforms are great for visibility and they’re great for understanding what’s going on in the market. We have communications globally, so, you know, you and me are talking, you have Zoom, you have things and collaborations, you have people working from abroad, you have access to all the global marketing. And you know, marketing can be done with a minimal cost and reach millions at this time.

00:55:49:25 – 00:55:55:11

Artemis

And we live in a great time where you can really work with that.

00:55:55:14 – 00:56:08:29

Mudassir

You mentioned something environment friendly, and I know you mentioned a couple of times sustainability. Yes. So, can you tell us a little bit more about why that’s important to you, your company, and how you incorporate that into your work?

00:56:09:02 – 00:56:46:07

Artemis

Yeah, absolutely. So, we have digital printing and the ways we are printing use very little water. And sustainability is important to me because, you know, we live in in an environment where everybody should be doing their part to keep it’s as safe as possible for us, for our children. And we believe on the global goals we try to support be 1g1, which is all about sort of every time we get some money in the company, we give a percentage of that to some specific causes that mean something to us.

00:56:46:09 – 00:57:25:08

Artemis

We have developed something called Make less fabric waste, which is something we’re trying to get a status for. And what we do is we try to help designers with upcycling using cut offs, creating patterns that, you know, use the most amount of fabric, and that will reduce all of this fabric going to landfills and I talk a lot about that in my book as well, because it is important to understand that every time a design is created, there’s a lot of fabric that has that is left.

00:57:25:10 – 00:57:56:11

Artemis

And so, in the factory we have lots of fabric, either for the fitting of the machines or cut offs or mistakes and all of that we try to send to universities or craftspeople, schools and anything really that we can upcycle is a benefit. So, what we’re trying to do is create a movement and we’re trying to get other schools, universities, other suppliers to join us and kind of take away all this fabric from the landfills.

00:57:56:11 – 00:58:28:17

Artemis

Because I do understand that we are in this business and from a sustainable point of view, this is what we can contribute in and further on. You know, we are always sourcing new fabrics, new, you know, we have recycled, we have eco fabrics and even though not all our range is sustainable, we try our best to replace as many fabrics as possible.

00:58:28:19 – 00:58:59:04

Artemis

And we do encourage brands to be using them because it does make a difference, you know, to the people who buy them. And it makes a difference to also the general supply chain because if more designers use these fabrics, then there will be more of these fabrics being produced and so on. So, for me personally, I think all of us want to be contributed into the world sustainability and this is our way of doing it.

00:58:59:04 – 00:59:08:12

Artemis

We also try to have renewable energy in our factories and any small thing that we can afford and we can do, we try to do it.

00:59:08:15 – 00:59:12:28

Mudassir

How big is the UK’s design industry? I mean, fashion design industry.

00:59:13:03 – 00:59:34:27

Artemis

It’s actually tens of billions and is the largest of all the industries. And yeah, it’s an incredible industry in the UK. Well, they’re trying their best, but there’s a lot of things to be improved. And Stylist Williams actually was mentioning a lot of this yesterday and she was the head of the center of sustainable fashion in the UK

00:59:34:29 – 00:59:55:09

Artemis

You and she had a lot of good points about what the government could be doing in order to actually improve the sustainability. But as you can imagine, there’s so many policies that need to pass and is very, very slow movement on those. And I think we will be hopefully expecting a lot more from them in the future.

00:59:55:12 – 01:00:12:03

Mudassir

Okay, that’s good to hear that. Speaking of Slough, one word that comes to mind is slow fashion, which is fast fashion. So, it’s just like an ongoing debate. Like people are going nuts over that. So where do you stand on this debate? What’s your take on it

01:00:12:06 – 01:00:41:10

Artemis

Well, we are sort of allocators of slow fashion and our factory is print on demand. So, we always talk about, you know, print what you need when you need it and you don’t need to keep any stock. You can just do what you need for it. But Susan, you can test your products, you can test your designs. And that is what slow fashion is all about, is about creating less and more quality products as well.

01:00:41:12 – 01:01:15:16

Artemis

So absolutely, for slow fashion, we do understand that fast fashion has to have a part in the market and that’s absolutely fine as well. But we have seen a massive shift and there’s kind of a hybrid now. So, there’s a hybrid model that is evolving and utilizes sort of textile digital printing and its ability to produce on demand is a key driver away from sort of holding the stock when it’s required, but also allowing this fast-moving brand to have their stock.

01:01:15:18 – 01:01:44:23

Mudassir

Okay. So, I want to ask you to sing towards that, you know, towards the hour, Mark, and obviously trying to close this thing. I think a lot of people have, especially, you know, over the Internet. So, everybody’s just like a critic of every single thing. That’s what I think about Internet. So how do you respond to critics who argue that the fashion industry promotes unrealistic beauty standards and contributes to body image issues?

01:01:44:25 – 01:02:15:01

Artemis

Yeah, So there’s no questioning that. This has been happening for many, many years. And we have seen a massive growth from brands that cater sort of sizes 4 to 16 moving to 4 to 32. And this is a very big change and the range is quite significant. So, from a marketing and production point of view, things are moving forward and this is another benefit of slow fashion as they can produce what they need and when they needed.

01:02:15:07 – 01:02:40:02

Artemis

And if you see now when you go to websites, you see the same clothes being worn by different weight women, different sizes, different skin color, you know, different body types, you can have the same product in several different images. So, they are catching up and is definitely moving forward. And I think it’s going the right direction.

01:02:40:05 – 01:03:01:21

Mudassir

All right, great. Thank you so much. Optimistic. Really loved talking to you. So, we do have a ritual on the podcast. So, what we do is we ask all of our guest questions for our next guest and then so we just don’t reveal that. So, we have we have a question from our previous guest for you. And then obviously you’re going to take but one of the questions from you for our next guest.

01:03:01:24 – 01:03:14:09

Mudassir

So, the question for you today is, if you could be you could be doing anything or you could have anything like time and money weren’t an object, what would you be?

01:03:14:12 – 01:03:18:19

Artemis

I think I’ll still be doing what I’m doing. And I know that sounds like why?

01:03:18:19 – 01:03:21:14

Mudassir

Why do you think so?

01:03:21:17 – 01:03:47:08

Artemis

Because I love the entrepreneur journey. I love helping designers. And when I say that we are dedicated to helping designers be better, grow more, which really means it does fulfill us and fulfills me daily to see other people’s successes. So as much as I appreciate it, a personal success, I think is very important to be there and make a positive impact in the world.

01:03:47:08 – 01:04:18:07

Artemis

So, I think what I would do if I could would be to have a bigger impact, gets more help for designers and, you know, maybe give more funding, improve the sustainability aspect. So, there is endless things I could be doing if I had an endless amount of money. But I think the main thing that would have remained is that I would love to keep the core of what I do and always work with designers and creatives.

01:04:18:09 – 01:04:27:20

Mudassir

Okay, yeah. Thank you so much for that. Thank you so much, Artemis. We really appreciate it. Love talking to you and we would love to host you some of the time as well.

01:04:27:22 – 01:04:34:00

Artemis

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed talking to you and what a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

01:04:34:02 – 01:04:35:07

Mudassir

Absolutely. Have a nice.

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